Mans best friend???

Hurricane*CF* · 01-10-2003, 01:34 PM

And i thought he was mans best friend

(edited to change image format)

[Edited on 1-12-2003 by Sentinel]

**LadyHawke** · 01-10-2003, 02:12 PM

You wouldn't happen to know where can I buy one of his pups, would you?

**OLDFOX** · 01-10-2003, 05:16 PM

HERE and you don't have to pay ,
Why do you think Foxs have long noses for ??

**Bluetiereign** · 01-11-2003, 01:21 AM

Across the state line here..... a group of cops pulled an innocent family from a car and shot the family dog.... while they were coming back from vacation.

The officers car video shows the dog leaving the car -wagging his tail.....and chasing the officers flashlight ( a favorite game the dog played with the owner... ) At least five officers around him... and he shoots it with his shotgun.

Granted, it was a bullterrier\boxer mix... but just like racial profiling... you can't judge the whole breed mean. I work with a man whose pitbulls you could pick up by their ears...and all you'd get for it is your face licked...

Good job officer ! Hope you have more backup or aren't scared of a large child running towards you with their arms out and a smile on their face after you unknowingly ask them to play !

**Anthony** · 01-11-2003, 02:55 AM

that just sounds like a great news story to me duder. there are way too many details left out of that story for anyone to judge that cop. and remember that we are talking about an animal here, not a human.

IMHO, we too often judge our police & teachers based on stories like this. all too often they are persecuted based on something stupid.

i praise & appreciate cops & teachers for what they do at so little pay.

**Bluetiereign** · 01-11-2003, 03:41 AM

I know where you are coming from Anthony.. My mom has been a teacher for going on thirty years... I don't give to a church - I give to Police/Highway Patrol Charities because I am a big fan of civility. Which is just the point.

The local news station went to find out how those officers are trained to handle the category that this incident falls under - and I quote - "How to handle Derelicts, Drunks and Dogs ". Even the trainers went out of the way to show that there are chemical, electrical and sticks available for these situations.. However, the officer used a shotgun. Mob hysteria is for the mob - not the civil servants.

Only because it was 'just a dog' will he get a break. But the whole story is very available and so is the tape of the dog coming out of the car. That dog was not meaning 'business' and as for the 'suspects' they were adequately covered and on there knees. I, too, appreciate their fine work.... but personally, I think the dude made a bad call..

We all make mistakes, and despite whatever group we belong to.. they are our own mistakes.

**Anthony** · 01-11-2003, 04:40 AM

Originally posted by Bluetiereign
.... but personally, I think the dude made a bad call..

possibly, but why did he/she have a shotgun in hand to begin with, rather than a more gentle weapon as you mentioned? why was that stop being made? 5 cops around? i don't know any of the details of this situation, & yet i can already justify his/her reasons for ridding that potentially distracting animal from the passengers of that vehicle who potentially had firearms.

"chemical, electrical and sticks available" even if these items were readily available, should he/she taken the time from the stop to get & use them? and why was the dog let loose to begin with.

it's very possible that this cop saved lives by acting quickly by removing the dog from this situation.

please understand that i don't disagree with you. but all too often we judge too quickly on these incidents.

01-11-2003, 05:09 AM

Bluetiereign you used and I quote the word "cops". So we all suck cause one cop shot a dog. Anthony makes a few valid points. Now I am an animal lover so much so that I would rather shoot the owner for making me shoot the dog. People generalize without understanding all the facts. Where did the story generate from ? The dog's owners ? Did they get statements from the officers on scene ? Remember that the media outlets in this country are very liberal by nature, so is their perception a tad skewed ? I wonder. I hope that this helps you think outside the box. Take care and Stay Safe.

**Bluetiereign** · 01-11-2003, 10:59 AM

First of all, let me apologize if the words 'cops' is considered a derogatory term. Secondly, this incident occured locally but has made the national circuit - I just ass-umed

you knew the details. This debate needs venting here (locally - not in this forum) because the poor guy is now receiving death threats.

possibly, but why did he/she have a shotgun in hand to begin with, rather than a more gentle weapon as you mentioned? why was that stop being made? 5 cops around? i don't know any of the details of this situation, & yet i can already justify his/her reasons for ridding that potentially distracting animal from the passengers of that vehicle who potentially had firearms.

Well, actually, the family was stopped because the guy accidenty left his wallet on the rooftop of his car and it blew off. A lady called in a robbery because of the large quantity of money found in it... there has been no mention of the family having weapons - except for the dogs ( one grown - one puppy )

"chemical, electrical and sticks available" even if these items were readily available, should he/she taken the time from the stop to get & use them? and why was the dog let loose to begin with.

The family is heard repeatedly - while on the ground and handcuffed - asking the officers to allow them to shut their doors so their animals would not exit the vehicle and get into traffic. I don't think you will hear the animals bark or growl at all - have you ever seen an agressive dog do this ?

Bluetiereign you used and I quote the word "cops". So we all suck cause one cop shot a dog. Anthony makes a few valid points. Now I am an animal lover so much so that I would rather shoot the owner for making me shoot the dog. People generalize without understanding all the facts. Where did the story generate from ? The dog's owners ? Did they get statements from the officers on scene ? Remember that the media outlets in this country are very liberal by nature, so is their perception a tad skewed ? I wonder. I hope that this helps you think outside the box.

From the tone and some references of your letter you perhaps are a peace officer. If that is the case - Salute. But, the media slant does not apply here... the video is from a HP car. Sure, the family's view is tainted by emotion but it looks bad..... see for yourself.

The story and Video.

You'll not find a bigger fan of fine law enforcement - and its easy to be the 'quarterback' while sitting in the stands.... but I don't know... There weren't even any actual robberies in the area...

[Edited on 1-11-2003 by Bluetiereign]

01-11-2003, 03:49 PM

Ok, here is my response after seeing the incriminating video (note sarcasm). The video to me does not appear conclusive as to what the dogs intentions were. You already have several officers (5) on scene because they believe that they have ROBBERY suspects.

And until you've been there and under that stress you are NOT i repeat NOT qualified to comment. I have many times been in similar situations over the past ten years.

Now, the correct response by officers is to one by one get the SUSPECTS (which they still were at this point) out of the vehicle safely. This is done at Gun Point due to the nature of the severity of the alleged crime. (It was called in as a robbery) The shotgun is deployed as a necessary but integral tool in effecting the arrests of subjects in close quarters.

Now as I viewed the tape several times, I observed what appeared to be a medium sized dog alight from the vehicle on the right hand side and come towards the officer on the right hand side. I saw a tail in the air, not wagging, the video was too quick to note whether the dogs intentions were playful or violent. Remember it's onwers were being taken away from it by uniformed men. Have you ever seen the way a dog reacts to a postman on its property ? Same thing here. I would expect my dog to react to protect my family.

You also have to take into account the officers past dealings with animals on calls. If he had encountered violent animals in the past he can certify his actions by using his past experiences. The only response he could have effected was the tool in his hands at the time. A two handed tool. He did not have the time to switch to another force option if he truly felt he was being attacked.

The tools I would have had available to me would have been pepper spray, baton, or firearm. Pepper Spray will NOT prevent a determined animal from attacking you if the "attack" is in progress. It is an irritant not a magic wand. The baton is used for defending ones self from a physical attack. Where would you strike the dog coming at you? I have conversed with my wife (a veterinary tech) on this matter and she states that the pitbull's skull is so thick that you would have to strike so hard as to kill it in order to stop it. Should the officer have waited until the dog's jaws clamped down upon him before he reacted?

The Shotgun was a pistol grip type with no strap. Would you throw the loaded firearm onto the ground possibly risking danger to the civilians and/or the Police Officers present. If I was in his shoes I would have reacted the same way given what I saw on the tape and based on my past experience with this breed of dog.

I meant no disrespect but you generalized when you said "cops" I try hard every shift not to do that to the members of society. If I do it I can be fired...I'm Irish so i'll use this, All Irish Men are Drunks. That statement is obviously untrue. When you generalize you hurt the members of that profession that are truly out there for YOUR safety.

My two cents.

**Anthony** · 01-11-2003, 04:08 PM

Well put dude.

the incident was unfortunate, and quite possibly could have been handled differently. but i would not second quess that cops actions for a second.

**Bluetiereign** · 01-11-2003, 05:27 PM

Please consider any perceived frustration on my part - a need to understand.

But I still wonder at the officers need to have the doors open after the human occupants were removed - and why animal control wasn't called from there...

I've been mauled twice... with the Weimereiner attack nearly severing my juglar vein... Fortunately, (for me, anyway) a man happened to be gardening nearby and got the dog off of me. That was over 30 years ago.. but the breed still makes the hair on my neck go up.

I appreciate your insight.. and cool headed debate on the subject. Well enough of this..

01-12-2003, 03:52 PM

Yes sir, I agree enough is enough. To your last question, the door is left open in order to get all occupants out of the same door. It's a measure of control, as well as a personality test. If they comply then you know things may end well. If their animal control is anything like ours, then they wouldn't even answer the phone/or respond to the call. God Bless Stay Safe

**OLDFOX** · 01-12-2003, 04:27 PM

So which one of you guys is the cop ( or Bobby as they are called in the UK ) and which one is the bad guy ( or crim ) it sounds to me you all feel you are right in what you are saying could this be a stalemate ??