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Thread: Inso «Ð*§*§» "My 2 Cents"

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    Inso «Ð*§*§» "My 2 Cents"

    Squad leaders Please pass this along to all of your member pilots. You may also feel free to post this in any forum, Web site, BBS, or where ever you see fit. (careful) :-)

    Hello fellow Squad leaders, pilots, co-pilots, wingmen/women, friends and adversaries.

    Inso «Ð*§*§» here. Ok now this is going to end up being a little lengthy so I apologize up front for taking up alot of your time, but this is of great importance too me as well as most I believe. I have a few issues that I need to discuss with all of you, but before I begin I need to address a concern you may have after reading this. I am not god, nor am I trying to play god, I don’t feel that I am the all-knowing ruler of C4 nor do I want to be. I want to play a game on a ethically level field, have fun and enjoy the company of people who share the same interest. My desire in this is only to improve the quality of the game for ALL of the people playing it, nothing more nothing less. That having been said I hope that what follows does not get misinterpreted or misunderstood.
    The first issue that I would like to address with you is the efam bug. You may have already heard some rumors and begun to wonder, so I will clear that up right now. I have been working on a new version of Autoexplode trying to expand its abilities to weed out the remaining bugs we have left in the game. I have in fact killed, or better said, voided the use of the efam bug. This is a bit tricky to follow but I think you’ll get the idea. When AE is active players in the game will still be able to farp using the bug and receive all 28 of their stingers without the use of the efams. But only the first 12 rockets are actually hot, effective munitions, the remaining 16 rockets lmao, are duds. Ok, HOW THE? you may be asking yourself, here is how. The server knows that the player is not using efams (that’s how it knows what radar data to send to opponents) and AE tells the server that if a player is not using efams then he or she can ONLY be carrying 12 rockets. Thus when a player using the bug fires rocket number 13 the server does not even know it exists. The player using the bug is the ONLY ONE that will see those remaining rockets (13-28) being fired, no other player will be able to see them at all, because the server doesn’t know they exist therefore they cant be fired, hence no data to transfer to opponents visual or other. The end result, the cheats will get cheated out of their last 16 rockets, thinking that they have the upper hand, when in fact they have squat!!!! They might as well be spitting at you, cause all thats going to happen is it will splatter on there own screen. Man isn’t irony beautiful. The numbers used in this example were stinger quantities, but yes rest assured that it has the same effect for hydras and hellfire’s, although the numbers are different (Hydras is first 24 hot last 32 duds (total 56), Hellfire’s are first 6 hot last 8 duds (total 14).
    The second thing I wanted to discuss with all of you is this "no count" information going around. I have read and heard many tid bits of information on this topic. I am not hear to slander or point fingers so don’t look for it!!!!!!! What I am hear for is too give you all the facts that I have acquired based on reading the articles, observing battles, and doing some of my own testing. The facts stated about the "no count" being a result of flare splash damage is in part the truth, "In Part!" Ok, follow this for a second Im going to bounce between real world and game world for a minute. If someone throws a concussion grenade at you, and it lands 15 feet away then goes off does it hurt? Hell YES! Does it kill you? Maybe, maybe not it probably will just wound you. But if someone throws 20 concussion grenades at you and they all land in a 15ft circle surrounding you, ummm, all those wounds equals-------your dead! Now, lets say that four guys threw those 20 grenades at you, who got the kill? No way of knowing for sure. Back to the game world, yes splash damage exists, how is the game to determine that it was the concussion of an explosion that caused the damage and not a tree, or a hanger roof? It can’t and because it really isn’t a "named hit" the tree gets credit as far as the game is concerned. Ok why is this happening so much? This is the only thing I have not read posted anywhere. So I’m going to give you my 2 cents. It is very simple, look at the grenade example above, this Helo your flying was designed to fire off stinger rockets at a rate of about 1 every 4+ seconds, Real world, addition (pilot reacts, pushes button, signal travels through the wire, computer gets the data and processes it, sends a signal to the release mechanism holding the rocket, and a signal to the rocket to begin burning its fuel cell, fuel cell lights starts to burn, arm releases stinger, stinger flies, reaches its target, target responds with counter measures (flares) flares impact stinger, stinger explodes, concussion throws the target off course and causes some damage. NOW there is a 5-10 second delay before this can all occur again, cycle rate on the stingers. Almost every pilot in the game (my self included) has modified his or her trigger to repeat+rapid fire. So look back at the grenade example again is 20 going to kill ya? Ok the following is FACT; find it at the army’s web site. Your 20mm cannon has a cycle rate of 1800 rounds per minute. Do the math and that equals 1800/60(seconds)=30 rounds a second. Now there are 1000 milli seconds in a second so continue the math, 1000/30 that works out to 1 bullet every 33.3 milli seconds. Now LOOK at the delay rate on your trigger, you want to fire stingers at a 30 milli (that’s .03 sec) second cycle rate? Or worse most have set lower than that. Ok one more hard thought for ya, you want the pc 2000 miles away across the web to receive the signal that you fired those stingers every 30ms LMAO your ping is twice and three times that at least!!!!!!!!! By the way the ping time is what’s called latency (time it takes to travel from point a to b). The signal used to transmit the rocket you just shot travels 3 times slower than you can fire them, and we haven’t accounted for the time it takes your pc to process the data and the receiving pc to process the data, AND YOU WONDER WHY IT DOSNT COUNT AS A HIT!!!! Please!!!!!! All right so what is he saying? <----- Is this you right now. Here’s what I’m saying I love my trigger tweak, do I think its a cheat, no I think its adaptation to the tools we have, used to our own advantage (the nature of the beast). BUT I am also saying that I know due to my trigger tweak giving me that super rapid fire that NOT all of my KILLS will count, and that is a cost I am willing to pay without complaining and nagging every other player out there about how when I shoot "them" it doesn’t count. If you don’t like the "no count" slow down the trigger rate!!!!!! Now don’t get me wrong, I’m not saying that the game doesn’t have some lag, and that some "no counts" aren’t caused by other factors, I’m saying that this trigger mod causes about 85% of them. Also add into the fact that you have 16 pilots in one game firing 1 missile every 30ms and you wonder why the game lags? That’s my 2 cents on the "no count" PLEASE do not take my word for it!! Do your own test and research, get 10 or 12 trust worthy pilots into one server with the trigger mods off and watch the TOTAL difference in the game! We are altering the way this game was designed to be played by CHOICE, therefore we MUST be willing to voluntarily and gladly accept the responsibility of our own actions, or do not do it! I’m done talking about "no counts" negatively anyway, if you would like some help to determine the best setting for your conditions Ill gladly help you.
    My last issue (thank god I hate typing, and your tired of reading I’m sure) is the scoring system that plagues us all. The rumor that you heard about someone altering the scoring was true. It was me! I have found a way to fix it, but I fear that it will only fuel the already hot fire. Why? You say, here is why
    Currently
    Score = Kills
    p1 17k 22d score=17
    p2 16k 02d score=16
    This is BS as we all know.

    So what I tried was subtracting 1 kill for each death that a pilot has
    p1 17k-22d score=-5
    p2 16k-02d score=14
    Player 2 wins That looks better!!!!

    But, here in lies the issue. Change it to this
    p1 17k-16d score=1
    p2 16k-14d score=2

    Three minutes before the game ends another pilot enters and gets 3 kills bam, bam, bam but no deaths. The scorecard now looks like this----
    p1 17k-16d score=1
    p2 16k-14d score=2
    p3 3k-0d score=3
    Player 3 WINS~! Does player three deserve the win as a better pilot because he has lucky timing?

    I really didn’t like that much better. So I changed it again, 1 kill is subtracted for every 2 deaths so the last game would look like this
    P1 17k-(16/2) score=9
    p2 16K-(14/2) score=9
    p3 3k-0 score=3
    Hmmmm, ok this looks better p1 and p2 are very close in their ability and p3 just joined so this is a little more of a true refection of ability.

    Ok, so that may look good. But it got me to thinking, why did I make Autoexplode?, Why did I give it out to all for free? The answer, quite simply to improve the quality and equality of the game for EVERYONE that plays it. So I wondered, "Who the hell do you think you are that you can decide how everyone else is scored? You want to make fair scoring, but are making the decision without asking anyone! I began to realize that if I did that it would defeat my initial goal of equality for everyone. So I thought maybe one that allows the host to decide! OH my I think that would get messy in a hurry, no conformity and can see it splitting the c4 community into a million pieces.
    So I am asking you, each and every one of you. How do YOU want it? I will post the idea's that are given to me and people can vote, respond, or ignore it. Maybe this is something that we can set up as a squad match rule but not public play. If we can reach a choice that everyone agrees on without the backlash later on "I don’t like this BS why did you change it", I will gladly fix the scoring. But if this is going to turn into a problem that was bigger than the dumb scoring we already have then why bother? I am asking for your input, feedback, ideas, opinions etc. I would like to hear everything!!! Whether it's FU or GJ!!!!!!! Ok I am done!!! Yaaaaaa

    Kill ya Later! :-)

    Inso «Ð*§*§»


    "Insofucious say: The day is only long when life is short!"

  2. #2
    Registered User Inso «Ð*§*§»'s Avatar
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    Testing the scoring method

    If you would like to see how the scoring works please feel free to join a server
    «Ð*§*§» Hydra Server is running
    Score=K-D (1 to 1)
    or
    Stinger game at "Blood Sport" is running
    Score=K-D/2 (1 to 2)


    [Edited on 9-19-2002 by Inso «Ð*§*§»]

    [Edited on 9-20-2002 by Inso «Ð*§*§»]
    "Insofucious say: The day is only long when life is short!"

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    while i agree with you to the most! i dont not agree with takeing one point off every 2 deaths, i think that 1 death = -1 taken off, but i would have to see it in play, i understand that when someone joins and gets 3 kills, bam, bam, bam, and no deaths, i hate that, but if someone is killing 15 and dieing 15 then they are not doing that good and should not be scored good! thats all there is to it, 15-15 your barely killing one person then dieing. so, i dont like the "every 2 deaths -1 point" it should be every 1 death -1 point, or just dont use a custom scoreing system"

    V.rAp†oR «L·R·S»

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    Inso «Ð*§*§» "My 2 Cents"

    i like the 1 kill -1 death but i also like the 2 deaths -1 kill we all need to agree on somthing so we can git back to the fun part of the game that is why we all bought it was for fun right not to argue abot 3 or 8 h or no kill counts or who is the reall winner in a game we all bought the game to have fun and that is my 2 cents

    [Edited on 9-20-2002 by Drake«Ð*§*§»]

    [Edited on 9-20-2002 by Drake«Ð*§*§»]

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    Member Anthony's Avatar
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    why not do a poll?
    Eating words has never given me indigestion. (Winston Churchill)

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    cents

    INSO..Hats off to you for putting in the time and effort for making a fix for the current bugs. It has made C4 playable again. Playing in the DSS server last night and using the new scoring system was fun....but....I never had an issue with the scoring. It is all a matter of tactics. If you want to snipe, then you are going to have less deaths. If you want to go in balls out, then you will have more deaths. Its all about the kills, so the guy/gal with the most should win.

    As far as the bug issue....thumbs up!!!! It has made the game fun again and has turned a bunch of pilots back into the game. Great job.....late

    This is just one dog's opinion and I am a DuMas.

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    Registered User Inso «Ð*§*§»'s Avatar
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    Great Idea about the POLL!

    Yes lets do a poll! how and where? Get it started and post the link.

    [Edited on 9-20-2002 by Inso «Ð*§*§»]
    "Insofucious say: The day is only long when life is short!"

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    Member Anthony's Avatar
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    just hit "new poll" and start a new thread.

    there is a poll box where you just list each item to be voted on.

    each item on 1 line

    i'll link up the threads 4 ya
    Eating words has never given me indigestion. (Winston Churchill)

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    what about CG scoring?

    Cg of course refers to comanche gold. in comanche gold a % or ratio is compaired to all players and the one with the BEST ratio is put on top . . . if you could award the BEST player ration a score of TOTAL NUMBER of players and then the next best would be TOTAL # - 1 etc etc . . .

    the scoring would not take in acount kills or deaths BUT overall numbers and would award positions . . .

    i myself have played with your system and i like it BUT i dont like the negative nuumbers . . .

    and i know this is going a little far BUT what about adding playing times?

    _______________________________
    ok issue on the no kills . . .

    for a while now it has been recognized by some who i will not disclose that the no kills were in part due to the way we dodge the stingers.

    when we dodge many times the flairs will contact the stingers and at times this will cause the splash damage.

    thus killing us . . . SO that said if you fire all your stingers as someone and they all hit the flairs and not the person you will most likely not get a kill at all . . .

    i have found too as well if you slow the rate of fire to match the lag in a game you will score more (that is to say some times YES i am pressing the single fire key 5 or 6 times with .5sec between just to kill someone on a laged server) on oponets that dont dodge as well BUT on the same respect if that oponet did dodge good i would still get a no count . . .



    so that is my friends the truth . . . and there is no denying the truth . . . just live with it . . . and try to find ways that you hit your oponet with out them taking splash damage.
    well i hope this has been helpful.

    _]

    [Edited on 9-20-2002 by _ghost_]

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    RE: MY 2 CENTS

    inso id like to thank you for all the constant effort youve put into making this game fair for everyone.i am with whatever you think is best to handle all bugs etc & know if it didnt work you would then find something that does .it is obious that your working toward a level playing field & thats all that matters to me .keep up the great & much appreciated work your doing & all please remember this is a game we play for enjoyment & funn

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    I think that the idea of getting -1 point off every death even though that will make my score alot lower lol but I think it would make it more fair because I hate it when people win with like a 15 kill 20 death ratio or something like that because they didn't do that great so I don't think they deserve it but sometimes I do that but I still think it should be 1 death= -1 point or the 2 death= -1point they both sound like a good idea.


    Killer

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    regarding Inso's 2 cents

    Hi Inso,

    This is Mosquito SAI. I would just like to say "well done". I think you have hit all the big major points that everyone out there is talking about but has no confirmation on.. I am glad to see someone come forward and talk about these issues, outside the individual squads..THANK YOU... I also think that this is the cause for most of the problems, but like you talked about in your letter, your still playing over the internet (an unknown quantity).. In answer to your question at the bottom, the scoring, I like the idea very much. I also think you really cant use it in public games as of now. I think this would work well in matches or private servers. I still think we need to get the word out to all the other pilots, not on squads in order to use it. I know this is a very large task, but I think it could be a lot easier if all squad members that are out there can inform newbie's and veterans alike, that are not on squads, of what will be taking place.. Honestly, I don't think this will happen in real life. The newbie's wont understand. The veterans like playing the way they have been. I think the scoring concept that you have come up with must stay on private servers and matches.. Excellent letter... Kill you later..LOL

    The bug

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    Two Modes:

    Competition Mode:

    Score - Kills = True Score

    Public Mode:

    Score as normal.

    Make it an option.

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    I will give the new scoring system a try but i am afraid it might not work. I had a long post written out but i didnt realize that i had to register first before i could post so i lost all of the post data when i pressed post reply. Therefore, this one will be short and to the point..... i'll give it a try.

    Would everybody please go to the new C4 Squad Central site as it represents the future of C4 and it will be a vital part of making this game truely fun. http://c4.jalopes.net/modules.php?name=Squad_Central . please explore the site and bocome familiar with it.

    -Sickle SAI

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    Sickles idea is a good one.

    Using AE and that, and you have a good foundation for the game's community.

    A sort of C4 Ladder.

    That's the way the best competitive games remain organized, fair, and have mediation for issues.

    It would be good have a forum dedicated to such a ladder too, where Squads can make suggestions and communicate in general.

    Perhaps a new forum can be hosted here?

    Just a thought.

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