Forcing No Counts On Purpose Is A Cheat!!!

[Ham617]

Thanks again INSO for providing support when NOVA left us high and dry and washed thier hands of us. In other games such as BHD they would have adopted changes such as yours and required the upgrade to play on-line, then this wouldn't have been an issue. Being a slowly aging vet myself, I as well as others tend to dig the heals in when something isn't right rather than run and live with it. You took it one step further and fixed the problems. Those that do not want 2.0 are simply dont want an even playing or scoring field. If I were you I'd be frustrated too and would consider telling all to go to hell. Just know some do appreciate the work and effort.
Ham

[Str8_up]

hmmm.....

[RED BARON]

Inso, I for one would love to see the fix for v20. I am one of the old dogs, I have seen a lot of the bull you have taken from the ungratful few.
You have spent many long hard hours of work on C-4. Most of us can understand you are doing this for us (US) and to inprove the game. Its a lot to ask of some one for a mere thank you.
I played on your test server when you had it up, I think this V20 fix would be the best thing that ever happened to the game. I hope you can see it in your heart to release v20 soon. Thanks Again

[Sayuton]

i dunno 'bout the rest of yu, but this entire thread makes me want to pat evrybuddy on the back,, rite a new macross ,, and scream at the top of my lungs -- ' it wll be ok, we,ll adapt to haveing the glichers run the show ' .

[Sayuton]

--But some saw it fit to have mercey on me, and help me learn how to play the game in online mode.(I.E. Reaper,TerrorX,Dee,SlapShot,Animal,OhNo, and a few others--

--sorry --



Let's debate.

[Edited on 12-6-2003 by Bluetiereign]

[WiperSix«L·R·S»]

Ok, so we have finally come to page 7 - the real issue: How to play games on the internet. This issue extends beyond C4, so if you want to be pessimistic, the anwswer is to only play with people you know and always in a closed server. This can become boring, however, since many find enjoyment in making new friends. The problem is inherent in the technology. Instead of having a rigidly defined playing field ( ie. monopoly board) you have an amiguous and malleable field which can be stretched in numerous directions, ethical or not, self mutating, and with parameters that extend beyond the context of the game itself (connection speed, hardware) all the way to the hackable issues (cabling, mutilated/dropped packets, game hacks). The difference between vendors even affects the game = for those of you who play bf1942, look how often ea tries to uptdate the game to prevent hacks (and still fails). The difference is that a game like bf has enough players that it now has leagues, and since the game servers can log well, the leagues have evolved into authorities that kick out members who cheat - a great thing mind you, it works ! Unfortunately, and as you can see from the pessimism so evident (unfortunately) in inso and blue's posts, a lot of the vet players have given up on the game (which bums me out, but which I understand).

So where is this diatribe going ? nowhere. exactly the same place C4 is going unless it gets some help.

which direction should it go ? that is the real issue. These are the multiple directions it is going now:

A) purist. fire one missle at a time, no repeat macros. forget it, play it on lan server or with friends. aint gonna happen on net.

B) wanna be hacker. " gee, I found this program that can lag our opponents server so we can win" - this type of person does play c4, they cause grief for everyone. doom to the game.

C) "I just wanna win" cabler, any macro goes. if I can hide my copter in a wall of a building I will. doom to the game

. . . ad infinitum.


the bottom of the line is that the vendor of the game has to support it. by supporting it, they provide regular updates that help the game stay sane and avoid most (never all) of the above. If nova has truly decided to drop support completely for C4, then it is over. There are not enough guys like inso around to save it.

Don't blame the people who stretch the game a little, its a natural evolution of computer games.
Don't blame the people who want the game to stay as it was originally, these type of people are in every game.

The people who kill a game are those that think that they are so important that they can publicly lambast others for their opinions, thinking they are important individuals because of their status in a computer game . HAHA. ITS SO PATHETIC. These are the fun killers. If the game continued to be fun, would all the players be dropping like flies. Would all these vets be so pessimistic ? Nope, its the fun killers who kill a game. The holier than thous, the Admiral this and general that, and those who feel the need to pose cursing on others' web sites. The people whose opinions are always the (only) right ones. You know who you are, so pat yourselves on the back.

(Insert violin sounds here)
Hopefully when the last c4 server closes for the final game, I will meet some of you (who I have had much fun with) in other games, and we will play again, and have fun again.
And I will have fun, because otherwise, I won't be playing.

Until then,
its been a lot of fun,
kill ya later

Wiper

(oh, and merry xmas too to everyone if I don't happen to see you between now and then (not being sarcastic))

[Reaper]

I am going to end my part of the posting with this last 1. When I posted to have INSO put a new AE out for C4, I beleived it would help solve the no count problem. I was wrong. Inso and I talked about what would happen and he was right. There is more wrong here than players glitching or cheating or what you think is fair. First to blue, You don't have to tell who you are I have seen you help players here at delta for years. The down loads is full of your maps. I don't care if You use another name and don't play open servers you contibution to C4 speaks for it's self. For all the rest of you. This isn't just a game. We spend money to up grade our pcs, we get broad band and some of us play every day. That is why this is so heated. At this point in time I don't care if Inso makes ae or not. I don't run it on version 1.5 when I play for fun unless some askes me to. And I have just about had my fill of C4 , squads and fighting. The game has lost it's fun for me. I need to deside if I should be still playing now any way and by the look of these posts I am not the only 1. So I am going to leave you all with a question ?. Some one was willing to do some programing to help give you a game with few no count's. Forcers, If you force to get kills why would you not want to play a version where you don't need to do it any more. You get them too?. The players that hate no counts so bad, Why wouldn't you stand up and back AE for version 2 above all else?. Un till you all can answer those questions it wont matter if INSO finishes AE for version 2 or not. Now to you INSO I am sorry I asked you for this. I remember what you said when You left c4 and why you did. I all most didn't. If the players in C4 want Ae for version 2 now it's your turn to show if it will be of any value or not. I have come to beleive it wont. I can play version 2 with out Ae with players that I trust any way. There will be few new players come in to c4 now to give us new players to play with. And what we have here now is only going to drop off alittle more each week.

[Bluetiereign]

7 pages and approximately 1500 reads --And two excellent posts.

Yeppers.. a 'purist' I am... and thus at disagreement (and a standstill) with more than a few - up to and including the use of (or teaching ) - the forcing of a no count and macros use.

However, I cannot disagree with the solid and well put thinking I just read. A salute to the both of you.

[N_E]

I also want to thank Inso for his great work. And yes, I would like to see V2 a/e.

This is also my last post in this tread. I just still want to say I have never used macros or programming when I play C4. I play it with my keyboard and mouse.

A player was bigmouthing that he allready found 3 ways on v2 server to accuse no counts. That's what gave me the rest and why I started this treat. Of curse on v2 servers without a/e. If a/e for v2 does not work to keep it a fungame for me, then I'll do just like Wiper said. I'll go and find me a other game where I can have fun.

N_E

[Ham617]

This is the last post in this thread for me too. Unfortunately what I saw last night was alittle disheartening. INSO put up a server with 2.0 and A/E. It was full for awhile until the NC crowd got tired of an even game and migrated to a 1.5 server. Sorry to see that, but I think it's not time to give up. If we can convince a few squads to migrate to 2.0, Especially LRS with the ever popular reloaded server, and not announce that it's 2.0, people might slowly migrate.
It's been an interestign thread, I usually dont get involved in forums, but suddenly I'm in 4 threads here LOL. Thanks whomever maintains it.
HAM

[StrayCat]

Wow ... I just spent an hour reading all of this, glad to see you you have all worked it out ... LMFAO

I still visit this site on a regular basis, its so nice to see that some things will never change.
ITS A GAME, IF YOUR NOT HAVING FUN PLAYING IT ... FIND A DIFFERENT ONE
Plain and simple

A quick hello to some of my old buds.. Inso, Blue, Reaper, and of course Wiper ... hope your all doing well.
Sorry , dont really know you newer guys, GOOD LUCK to all of you. I still love C4, but to much BS, as usual.

[OhNo]

Well this is my last post on this matter.It is very sad that it could not be debated. There have been a lot of things said and they where taken the wrong way like teaching meaning helping a new pilot learn how to fly and there are a lot out there now that are try to help. I am one of them.Sadly no one did that for me it was like learn the best you can.
INSO's server yes I was there and did leave no fault of my own I had a computer problem. I went there in support of the V20 AE the first thing that was said when I entered the server was OH THE NC KING why would that make me want to stay I did take a screen shot of that if anyone would like to see it. INSO that will not stop me I will fly in your server anytime you have it up thanks for trying to help. I truly beleive it is needed for those that want it.
The things that have happened in the last few days are very sad,there is no more GET RANKED which was the best server I ever flew in. There was very little problems in this server Reaper kept things in check,and I beleive most had a lot of fun and it was a good place to help new pilots because of the size of the server.Hope you reconsider Reaper I for one will truly miss the one place it was fun again.
INSO please continue with the AE for V20
it may help some of the problems. THE BOTTOM LINE IS WE SHOULD ALL HAVE A CHOICE.......................

OhNo

[MadRocker]

Howdy All,
Mad here.... When i first got this game I was clueless as to what version I bought. I played all 31 missions (K/B & mouse) then got online (dial-up). I pretty much got me arse whooped on a daily basis. No one told me bout the 8H thing, the rotor vol. thing... nuttin. I'm still here. If everyone is so hard up for V2 please send it to me. Inso make A/E for it. I will be more then happy to host it. I am also sure that the drama will not end. Somewhere along the line someone will start a controversy and the beechin will start. Anymore I simply get the satisfaction of watchin me victims fall and burn (still with K/B & mouse). I also would like to leave you good people wit me favorite C4 sayin.... Anyone wanna touch me Hiney =) ....Peace

[remnant]

i really think that this issue has blown over the top. especially the son forum (www.sonsquad.com) . i think that ppl really need to get a hold of themselves
(myself included) before blowing their mouth off. certain pilots also need to get a life.
i said everthing i want to on the son forum, and i dont care wat ppl think of me.
rem
p.s. i like these smilies...lol... , .

[SierraMike]

Hi@all!
This is SierraMike, leader of the =EFA= European Fighter Alliance.I feel sad about what things i must read here. Do some people forget, that C4 should make fun and we all want fun and no cheating? I will say it: =EFA= will never agree to the force NCs "tactic". Its NO part of the game!!!Its poor and bad and only could come from people who have normaly no chance to win.
=EFA= will ever play fair, with the normal possiblities and only with them.
If a EFA-member use "Force-NCs" he will have to leave my sqaud 10 sec. after the message reach my ear!
I will support every sqaud that is against that cheat stuff too!
We had a battle vs. ***: ******* laugh about us, cause he use this cheat, so i had to abort the battle. Bad for all others, cause we expect more from a sqaud like ***.

So thats my position!

SierraMike=EFA=

Edited to Include: I appreciate your input. I have personally flown against you, as late as last night. Let us debate issues, not accuse individual players and entire squads. Thanks Mike.



[Edited on 12-7-2003 by Bluetiereign]