Forcing No Counts On Purpose Is A Cheat!!!

[Str8_up]

LOL Ohno....Np bud...don't mean to be a whiner....not trying to be...lol
N/E....
What do you mean by accuse?
I'm missing something maybe?....
Anyhow...On the flip side of what you said....(and what you said may be true)... Why not just learn how to pull them....You might find that it is challenging....
You should let me show you...then you will see how it's done...then...maybe it will help clear some of this up.
Catch me some time...i mean that....It will also help you defend against the NC's...Thats how I learned to Strafe and avoid...
Later bud...Str8

[OhNo]

Bluetiereign
What is fair and what is not that is the question

[Reaper]

No this is about choosing the version you want to play. If the no counts bother you that much play version 2. What did you expect players to do, when you posted it as cheating, not defend what we consider a tactic. As far as you saying you shouldn't have used cheating you just wanted to spice it up, That flys here but after what 1 of your team mates did to me over yahoo when you started this thead I don't buy that either. A lot of players don't like this tactic that is fine. The fact that there is another version that does't have near as many NCs has been made public before this thread ever started. Yet players still want to complain about it. This is simple play people that want to play the way you do. Claiming the no count forcers are what is causing players to leave c4 is bs. There are so few that really understand it. They make a small group that play c4. Most of the time we play with each other. C4 was in trouble long before this truly became a problem. At this point in time the server with the most players most of the time is come and get it. The reason so many players use it is you can play there 8h. So don't tell us about using a glitch or running players out of c4. Most players fire way to many stingers much to fast. They dont straf well, controle there heat, or there radar sig. Those a skills in the game and part of forcing no counts. The only diff between a player that forces is he knows this and attacks with it in mind. The reason I have posted so much on this is I put forcing no counts in the public view and addressed it months ago on my website. Untill I did that and and started training players how the scoring affects the way you attack. Players never talked about forcing. Players complained ever time they got 1. Some of those players now understand why. Thats not running players out of c4. Thats explaining how the game scores. Same as I have done here the last few days. I have taking heat from both sides over this. The complainers want me to stop. Some of the forcers want me to let players learn it on there own like most of them did. Guess what ever player in c4 can choose to do what they want. I made my choise, play version 1.5 and ask Inso to make AE for you. I can still play version 2 with players I like if that's what they want to play. This is just 1 complaint in c4. I have seen LMB take crap over camping, players accuse others of being 8h in a server running AE. Call other players cheaters. And just whine because they are losing. All of this has been BS. Thats why squads fight and c4 is in trouble. We can't make players play the way we want. You players want to help C4 ?. Start by treating the player you face the way you want to be treated. Take the griffon in a server and help him. But stop all the BS.

[Bluetiereign]

Ok OhNo... one last post... PURELY...in the spirit of debate... and not necessarily my opinion..

__________________________________________________ ________________

As the 'Devils Advocate':

What is fair and what is not that is the question.

Simply put - Not to everybody. There are some who saw the 'exploitations' for what they were from the beginning. Fair is what made the game what it was - not what it currently is. There was a time when you died, the score reflected it. There was a time when you killed and it counted. There was a time when you pulled the trigger once and fired once. There was a time when you didn't die because you strafed and that was a successful strafe manuveur - not a no count.

Keep up the avoidance, and hiding behind your ethical debates - and attempting to divide the truth - when you put it all together, it is still going to add up to the truth. What is fair is what makes the game work as intended.

BTW, have you played a V20 server where everyone cut off that repeat or macros firing yet ? You couldn't be having trouble finding enough people willing to play that way, could you ?


__________________________________________________ ________________


In all honesty, I really have other 'fish to fry' and my real interests are elsewhere... Aside from this - I have nothing to gain here either way. As far as I can see... this issue is like watching people fly thru Mtns in a CI. Who is to decide whether it is intentional or not... me ? Pfffffft.

IMHO... this (no counts) is not my problem - finding players of like mind and connections is. I began playing C4 with a 233mhz 16mb vid card and 56k connection - in the middle of my complaining about my poor performance (which is true to this day..lol ) due to system defeciency... I was told by someone that if my system couldn't perform - either upgrade or get over it. That bothered me then - but not now. It was an actually a sound piece of advice. Apply that to choosing with whom you play. Upgrade (or simply change) your associations... or get over it. Sad...but truly a sound piece of advice.

[Str8_up]

Goooooooo Reapor!!
You win!!! lol
Ok already....who's defending what now?.......
I've never even seen you in any open servers whomever you are Blue.....
IF you would let us know...perhaps we could talk on a different note. ...But....I don't know who you are....
I'm sure you understand that.
Or do I know you and you don't want your name associated with your opinion?
Either way....Your correct about one thing... This is worse than watching a plant grow. (going nowhere)
Like I've said 2 other times..... we will see what really happens in the servers....If you want...I'll probably be in Reapors Revenge or something like that...hehe.
Good luck all...and I encourage you to join us in our servers.
Later.....Str8

[Animal]

You want to know something about all this you guys actually have a good way to express some of your feelings but everyone does not know how to put them so they put there words in the best way they can but it always ends up starting trouble anyways, like myself I start trouble sometimes but i don't do it all the time it is im tired of hearing the whining about the Nc's and some of the good pilots even whine about them.Most of the pilots that fly I hope they fly for fun but some pilots take there games seriously which is alright but it is hard to see the good pilots whine about an Nc the only thing it tells you is that you are doing something wrong with your flying try to fix. I try to help most of the new pilots out because I would hate to see Novaworld drop C4 because it will be hard to talk to the friends that we have met through the game. But let me get down to the point here I'm tired of everyone accusing my buddy Terror of cheating and what he said in SON's fourm yeah I say it was wrong but some of things he did say was true but you guys judge people by the way they say things you dont know the history of them, so you really would not know how to act towards them, but I have kept my saying out for a long time on all this but I said my peace.

Dont come to with a problem
come to me with a solution....................

[OhNo]

You said it all REAPER thanks again for the stand up person you are, and all you have done for C4. I will fly with you anytime......................

OhNo

[GarretJax]

Hey Blue, after reading all this stuff I believe you have said it the best.....if the game was played as originally intended....without the Stick macros this thread would probably not be here....when i first started..(using single shots..imagine that!) the nc problem was very rare and didnt seem to be a problem, at first i thought it was a cheat being able to fire so many at one time...didnt think it lent to the realism of the game, but like most ..if not all... when i started gettin racked by macros I made the change myself and joined the crowd in order to stay competative.....I believe you are right in saying we have created our own monster here.........now we just keep makin it bigger and more powerful everytime we try and get around it.....For myself and the fact i like the game so much and the community involved (best i've had the pleasure to play with) lets all throw away are macros and play the game as it was orginally intended.....we are a small community and word gets around very fast .........so it is not impossible.........maybe tough to get the newbies involved but at a Squadron level it could be made unlawful to use macros during match play.........would be interesting to find out wouldnt it!

[Bluetiereign]

As I stated before... this debate for me is moot point. I argued this point long... long ago.

I'm not saying that this is the entire problem... But it does seem that removing the variables instead of adding them is a very logical approach to narrowing down the root cause.

And it will remain logical - whether you know me or not.

[Str8_up]

You still havn't said who you are...
and although this has now opened a BIGGO can a WORMS.....I will go into my friends servers that Don't like NC's....and I WILL Respect there server rules...Just as they will come into mine...and respect them....
The servers again...WILL TELL the story.

[OhNo]

LOL this gets better by the minute!!!!!!!!!!!!!
WOW I was in a server this morning and I heard a guy complaining about cannon use......... I am the one that started the cannon use hoping it would help the No_Count problems. You can avoid my stingers but not my cannons, before I got it down to a science some one caught on to what I was doing and it has spread like a virus macro. They have been turned up as high as 5000 rpm great no problem. I will shoot you passive and avoid your cannons that works great too. The thing is, where does this all stop if you cannot play the game and adjust to the changes. Then I say break your disc and throw it in the trash we all evolve and that is just what this game is doing, evolving. The players are getting better and I as well as Reaper are helping them, we have to adapt to that all the time. I myself I love the challenge seems no one wants to adjust but instead they just whine. Whine why would you whine about cannons when it is a solution to No_ Counts. The pilot that was complaining is one that said he would never fly in a server with me because I cause No_Counts. I found a solution to his problem and he whines about that too. So in my opinion these kind of guys are the ones that really should throw C4 in the trash and quit playing. Yes we all catch hell as Reaper said, LMB catch it for camping, that is ok I found a way to beat that too. IT WAS A CHALLENGE try looking at the game that way. I would be willing to train any pilot that wants to know how to do that too. We all have to learn and some of us have to be teachers. Suicide farpers--- that is a good one too.... let them do it I.... listen to where the respawn and kill them on the farp or not far from it!!! What did they gain?.........LOL.
I was in V2 server when this all took place to day. I was flying 3h as I always do and guess who was still #1 on the list. without any No_Counts But I had several double deaths.
Enough for now........

[OhNo]

Oh I forgot checked with the Doctor he said I would be alright when the whinning stops.

[Inso «Ð*§*§»]

Hey Reaper, it would seem that the majority prefer to keep v15 as it is and not move onto v20. So, do you still see a need for me to even finish ae for it? As I have played a whole wooping 6 hours in the last 10 months, I truthfully could care less. If they want it they got it, if they like it the way it is, I see no point in wasting time on it.

Funny thing to some of us 'old veterans' - we hashed these issues out long before many of you started playing the game! I, for one, left realizing that it would never change. I come back 10 months later only to find the same arguments and mud slinging competitions. My return was fueled by one person, Reaper! I'm not here to whine, not here too cry, not here to tell you how you should be playing or how you should be having fun, I'm here to do a favor for a friend, and in some ways, as I released the first ae, that truthfully is why you still have a game to play. I felt obligated to do a new one for 20. I think this thread started out on the wrong foot merely by its title, it got a little better and actually became a topic worth discussing, but it seems that hot heads and narrow minds are pushing it back into oblivion. Have no fear from this 'old veteran' being set in his ways, as once AE is finished and until the BS is, I will be as well. Keep in mind if it wasnt for the veterans you so easily spite, you would not have the game you play today!! And, if it was not for the BS you would have a game ten times the one you do today!!!!!! I have over a dozen different utilities for C4, as well as 73 maps and 146 new terrains. When the crap is gone and smoke has cleared, lets see who has a game on!

This ole dog will be on the porch while all you pups are chasing your tails!!!!

Reaper let me know what you want to do!

[GarretJax]

Hey SlapShot.........need some further technical references on posting a no count being an "evasive manuever"......... lmao I thought people were purposely facing themselves into the missles........anyway its some of what i read......

[OhNo]

You ask A question INSO... Yes we do still need the AE for V20 I would not want anyone, to have to suffer over this mess that is going on. I have a great deal of respect for you and what you have done for the game and I hope that I did not offend you. Just stating my feelings and ideas on the matter.