Please help!! How fight drones?

I'm just a lowly newbie single player, yet I could sure
use some help defeating those danged drones in the Flytrap
mission. I've tried the hint about attacking them before
they're activated You sneak up behind them where they're
suspended in midair and just shoot 'em like stationary ducks.
But while I'm doing that, another group of drones from the
other side of the map, off-radar, gets activated and starts attacking
the high rises. I fly to intercept but there are just too many of them
and before I can down them all they've destroyed enough buildings
and I lose. How the heck do you complete this mission? How keep
those high-rise attackers from activating??

What mission are you referring to because I haven’t been able to locate the one your describing?

...and don’t fret friend, we were all lowly newbies once....:wink1:

[Edited on 9-26-2002 by Charger]

Charger.. I believe the mission to which Rabid refers is called Flytrap. The mission involves killing an unreal number of drones before advancing to Waypoint 5 and destroying the Control Tower directing the Drones. I went back and played this mission again, to see if I could be of any help.

Rabid, newbie or not, that is one seriously tough mission. As soon as you are off of the pad - go straight to the first waypoint. Use your cannons in short bursts and kill that first group as soon as possible... head directly to the second waypoint that leads to that second group. You can take that second group with cannons, but may wish to expend some stingers on the third. If you have killed these groups in time, you are well on your way. Stop and Reload , you are going to need it... but do it fast.

As for the rest, the hardest part is spotting the pesky things, they can be very hard to get in a 'lock' . Use the cannons for the close ones and your stingers for the ones getting too far away. Stay close to the High Rises, the drones that get away will return.. Watch their patterns in your Radar, and try to meet them on their way in, just as you would a flyball. I believe I reloaded two more times after the first when a chase brought me to farp.

The buildings, in MY case anyway, suffered much damage... you'll have to shut this out and pay attention to finding those drones and killing them.

One last thing, when your ready for waypoint 5... kill the drones that you need to, but get that sight focused on the control building and fire... That will end the mission.

Good Luck and Good Hunting

:thumb:

Edited to Add: Someone else may have a better idea, and faster solution, concerning not activating the High Rise Attackers - unfortunately, this was not an option in my mission and I was forced to play ' the hand that I was dealt '. So, if this doesn't work for you, keep checking back, and maybe someone will offer something that WILL work for you. :spin:

I feel as if I've been cheated if this mission came on the Comanche 4 disk cause I'm not finding it for some reason. I am curious about it now and would like to play it. Is this a user made mission? :puzzled:

Charger:

Somewhere along the timeline, I had to reinstall C4... and erased the directory (and of course, my rank- which, I submit, is worthless when you become adept enough to edit a map). I used the *Wolfblitz* shortcut to replay the mission in archives. I specifically remembered that one because after 'cruising' along, that one was like hitting a brick wall.

Not sure why your CD would not include the mission. I've noticed - according to many posts in many places - that Novalogic apparently ignores its' users after the purchase of their product, so I don't pay them much attention either. Its a shame though, to offer such a nice product (overall) and then hide from the consumer. Of course, business is business - and I'd like my used car to have air conditioning, a 500 watt stereo... you get the idea.

Anyhow, out of respect to the company (and possible copyright infringement) , I won't just post the mission file for download but give you the ID of it in my C4odata.pff file. And not for your benefit, of course, but for others, Raven's PFF utility tool should help take care of the rest... in case your program didn't install correctly.

The ID of the file is CO3MO5.BMS. And once again, not for your benefit, but for others... don't forget to extract the CO3MO5.til file!

Hope this helps!

its ok to attach that kind of stuff blue...

btw, when are we all gonna see that space station?

If your reference is to that monstrosity called EyeInStein's Whirled.. a less graphically intensive version might be made available in the Maps download section - their call, not mine. Really is just 'Eye Candy'...

Edited to Include: At this point I would have attached the FlyTrap file since I appear to have the 'OK'... Only I can't figure out how to attach the darn thing to a post..

Quote:

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Originally posted by Bluetiereign
... Only I can't figure out how to attach the darn thing to a post..

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in a new post entry window there is a field at the bottom that says "attachment", just hit browse & point it to the file in your pc media (hard drive, cd, etc.). but i have found you can only do this on a new post, not an edit.

i also just found you can not change or edit an attachment, i had to have a mod do it on my post cuz the file was messed up

:rolleyes:

This one even played the clippet usually played before you start, hope it helps...

Edited to include: This identical file sends both the *.bms and *.til files to my desktop - without any changes... however, if I want to use the downloaded version... I have to right click and save it to a folder... Extract that file and rename it to a *.zip file - after deleting the original zip file - and extract it again... Maybe the server rezips it...don't know.

~and~

I wonder what happened with Rabid and his attack of the Drones...

yea, you got me on that one... thats the same trouble i was having

Well this is the deal. I could not un zip the files you posted to save my life but what I did was search through the PFF file and happen to find the C03M05.BMS and til and just extracted them to C4 directory. It works and will be playing the entire mission after I'm done with this post. Weird how the mission is there but does not show up in the archives.:cool:

Tuff mission, almost to hard. I did notice that you could target the drones at certain points in the AO. I think the key is being in the right place at the right time and having adequate cover when you run out of stingers. If you follow the first group in you can pretty much take them out just as they reach the first mountain before going over into the town, they target there. I manage to land on a FARP and reload but as I got up and started to take out the next cluster, which I almost had them all when a third group came in behind me and wiped me out. This mission needs to be set to coop and a few Comanches get in there and wipe them out.:ar15:

Also forgot to mention. Stay behind the drones as much as possible...even when they can target you they can not target you from behind.

Thanks for the help all Charger and Bluetie. I got so frustrated with that mission I dropped it for awhile and went on to others -- which even the tougher ones at least seemed to give you a chance! I still see no way to defeat the drones, although Blue if you were able to do it then it certainly is doable. I will try flying mostly behind them, as they should be easier to target with the cannon (when, as you note, you've run out of stingers). but I've found I have to fling an inordinate amount of 20mm shells at them, even with a target lock, and by the time you've managed to shoot down even a few of 'em that way, they've won and Dark Star is telling me the mission is a failure. Tough, tough mission!! Oh well, if I can't get any better at it I'll just resort to Wolfblitz to unlock those following it, I guess.

There is a FARP right after the hill when you can target the drones. There is enough time to re-suppy but this is as far as I got, I'm still trying.:ar15:

The smart money... is on Rapid...:nod:

Uh, no offence Charger, uh sir...

None taken...I just have more to do and no time to do it in...:cool:

I wish! Last night I thought I had discovered the solution. Instead of going to the the first waypoint, which appears to be a "trigger" for the drones, I flew south toward the "hanging" drones as advised in the semi-cheat I've seen elsewhere. Only this time instead of shooting them down as I've done in past attempts, I let them be and kept on going around them to the south and then east. Zooming the radar out to max, I thought I might pick up on their base and attack that first. I did find a bunch more drones just hanging in the sky, waiting for something to trigger them. I left them alone too and eventually found their base. I don't recall the direction, exactly, but I think it was east or southeast of Minsk. At any rate, I shot up the base, killed everything and everybody there including a bunch of nearby drones. I then get the message that the 'destroy the base' objective is accomplished. Plenty of time to visit the FARP and reload with stingers. So far so good, none of the nearby drones is moving and I've not gotten the dreaded message that 'the drones are attacking the high rises'. So I'm thinking all I gotta do is find the rest of the drones, maybe hit the waypoints, and I'm done. I find more hanging drones between me and Minsk and take them out. But just when it's looking like this is finally going to work, something triggers the ones from the south, the ones I'd bypassed originally and maybe others I hadn't found yet, for all I know - and they fly in, shoot up Minsk despite my chasing them around, and in about 30 seconds they've won again. Dang!!

Don't know what the trigger is that sends in the drones. Maybe you've gotta avoid all waypoints or something. It doesn't seem to matter if the drones "see" you - if you approach them from the front they'll fire missles at you but still won't move - so I doubt that's it. Next time I'll try attacking the base first, that seemed to work well; then go flying around the perimeter of the map with radar maxed out, and try to take out as many drones as I can find before they go on the move. Don't know if that'll work for sure. If anyone knows more about what triggers 'em, I'd sure like to hear about it.

Charger are you having any luck?

Wish I could help Rapid... I opened the map using some tools available here at Checkpointdelta and looked briefly at the events and win conditions:

There appears to be 4 sub goals labeled as critical for mission completion.

Minsk Residential Area is secured
Minsk Suburb is secured
Downtown Minsk is secured
Drone Control Facility is destroyed

To do each of these involves destroying all of the groups involved in the attacks of
these areas.

As to what 'triggers' the 'events' of the attacks... what you ask is quite complicated... There are about 50 events and almost as many waypoint lists in this map... and not one of them is labeled except with a number. Tracking them down and listing them here would take considerable time... and, in my humble opinion, ultimately undermine an 'honest' mission completion.

I will offer you this... that the drones are 'activated' to go into an attack pattern when some of the drones finally reach a certain point, while others are activated when a certain number of another group are destroyed....So....

You might think about leaving the stationary drones alone... and destroy the ones that must be destroyed anyway first... For some reason, the mission went much better when those first three groups I referred to in my first post were destroyed before their entry into the city, or very shortly thereafter.

Decide on which angle of attack is your most successful for shooting down the drones...get yourself there, and again, keep your cannon fire limited to very short bursts.

Keep trying... I don't know how many times I had to try that mission, but it was more times than I care to admit...

I hope this helps ! And if it doesn't - you can safely believe your experience eventually will.

:)

Bluetiereign...did you say you actually complete this mission? I was wondering because it seems like a tuff mission and from what I saw from the designers events list was that his intentions wasn't to have you beat this mission, not easily anyway. I have been able to track down the initial trigger #8 that pretty much starts the ball rolling. It sits right in front of you and runs along the entire AO. Just as you hit player waypoint 1 you’re in it. I also noticed that if you destroy just a few drones in one group another group is initiated or redirected to the group your attacking waypoint list. Also if you target a group and another group is in the area the second group will turn green and come into the area and basically will target you, a pretty decent design. When a set of drones reaches the end of their waypoint list, and none of the waypoints loop, then they are directed to an opposite waypoints list using another drones waypoint list.

Its possible to head directly south and avoid most of the madness, and reach what I believe Rapid was describing. There are a few groups of drones there at their start point.
Most of the triggers are within the first boundaries of the mission. All the drones except for the two groups around the command center are located on the outside of the AO. It would be possible to take out a good cluster of drones by working your way around the outside. Its not going to matter if you destroy the command center first cause your still going to have to cross triggers to get the events to play out and get your mission complete. I know that all this seems a little like cheating but I’m not personally looking to cheat my way through this mission because its seems worth the effort to try and find the solution while playing it out. I got curious and decided to see what the events list looked like for myself.

Here’s a small explanation of the events list.
When player reaches area trigger # 8 four groups of drones are triggered. Which is event 42, this would be the initial event cause it’s the first thing you do, cross over into area trigger #8 to reach player waypoint 1, unless of course you fly around.
From there is goes into variables as to, if you destroy x units then the next set of drones are sent in or some of the four groups are redirected which gives them the random flight path so at this point you may not be able to build on a pattern from each time you play.

There are some 15 groups of drones and each group or set of groups are sent in depending on lost units and variations of area triggers you set off, so I will agree with one thing, that its going to take a lot of luck to beat this mission and more then a few times to do it in. :ninja:

Unfortunately, I took your post as a challenge, and had to play the dang thing at least 7 or 8 more times to beat it. That last time it was 2:00 in the morning, I was dog tired, and was quite happy to see that final screen and mission score roll around....

Knowing your propensity to 'have a little fun'... I'm hesitant to post, but in the chance of genuine pursuit of mutual knowledge and accomplishment ... I'll go on... You know I've been at this less than two months...

Anyway, after further study of the makeup of the map, I did notice that the destruction of some of the groups turned other groups to the neutral side. I also noted that the author included some transporting... a technique Rüstinsk used thoroughly, and with very lethal effect, in one of his co-op maps... I didn't bother to trace what the author was moving, but the shear numbers of the drones and the difficulty in getting a lock on them alone is enough to be ovewhelming... Personally, I believe the map to be of co-op caliber... not a single mission map. Whoever wrote it knew their stuff and turned out a very challenging map.

Clearing out the that first wave and securing the Minsk Residential Area and subsequently getting to that FARP as quickly as possible is key. If that is accomplished you can get to the Suburb area before the drones and meet the groups before they part ways into those separate and apparently random flight patterns to which you refer. I hit the FARP again at this point. This is also true on the High Rise or Downtown objective -again, staying close the High Rises, and meeting the heaviest concentration of the drones head-on, leaving the stragglers for later. Aside from making the 'on the fly' decision of whether to spend more cannon shot or load a stinger... I know not much more that could help... for as you know by now, the communication's building is surrounded by mostly harmless drones that toss a few stingers and are lousy shots with their cannons.

One thing I did notice that I thought to be errant was something I discovered when programming planes into my own maps. You have to avoid flight patterns that actually put the vehicle close to a building if your 'waypoint z' is not programmed to be much higher than the structure. The vehicles ( in this case the drones) appear to pass through the building without effect and suddenly gain 100 or so feet in altitude. Hardly fair to the pursuing Comanche.

:)



[Edited on 10-2-2002 by Bluetiereign]

This is a very intriguing mission to say the least and from a designer point of view is a good lesson in design, well worth scrutinizing. I found a few minor flaws or senseless design values but other wise then that they do not alter the outcome of the mission. With confidence I can say that this mission was not the work of one person and would be surprised to hear other wise. I guess my stance at this is the mechanics of the events list and not actual playing it because it is elaborate in its own design and does have a lot of elements that any dedicated designer might be interested in learning how to work these events out.

It’s complicated but yet fairly simple in that you have the basic structure for events. Player reaches trigger and drones come in. The actual pattern of the drones is left up to the player’s decision and how he maneuvers his Comanche through the map and how many targets he destroys in the journey. You did say that there was teleporting involved but the only teleporting I could decipher from the map was that of the teleporting of unarmed civilians to there prospective places in the city, at which point the drones will attack them and which is an actual event and has a sub goal placed to it.

I admire your dedication to completing this mission but was more of less looking for your view on how this mission played out if you had completed it. It wasn’t a challenge but nice job in beating it never the less. I actually use this sort of events listing but on a very small scale so in some ways it’s not that difficult to understand. The only thing I was hoping to find was the sequence in the events list to fallow the attack of the drones. The designer did not set any order to the list, something not uncommon in events listing. :grin:

Wow, you guys are waaaaaay above my level! I appreciate all the thoughtful advice. Actually the only reason I'm looking to "cheat" is because this mission seems impossible to complete honestly and I wanna get to those that follow it. However, it is apparent from what you say that a great many variables are involved, and maybe by stumbling around I'll eventually hit on the correct solution. All I know is, when the drones start attacking the city, the radar sure shows a lot of **** red triangles! And when they split up and go to zipping low between the high rises it's like trying to swat flies in a hot kitchen. I'll keep at it and report back. Thanks!

:ar15:Urrgh. Me must KILL DRONES NOW!

I took a few minutes to try the map both ways... A couple things...

First of all, you are given instructions by 'DarkStar' to head to Waypoint 1. Not doing this outside of the 'gaming circle' would land someone in 'the brig' and offer them a chance to see a court marshal first hand.. Not to mention gounding the pilot for the entirety of their life. Of course, this is a game, but in a military format, so with this undefined boundry reinstated... on to the logistics of the programming...

Unlike my preference in AI programming, the author(s) did not have the first group of drones already assigned to a designated waypoint, you have to activate this event by actually following instructions and approaching waypoint 1. Personally, I prefer to have the activity of the map working independently of the 'players' (at the beginning)... However, though this might eliminate the errant player's navigation, it could possibly offset the timing to the point of giving the AI's an unfair advantage...

Also, I believe the changing of Groups between Green and Blue is so the yet activated drones are not shooting the buildings while hovering (waiting for activation) - not a switch to a neutral stance instead of the enemy.

Bypassing waypoint 1 fails the gameplayer twofold. Not only are you failing to follow instructions, your timely arrival at certain points on the map is altered, and your chances at success lessened. IMHO, as programming becomes more thorough, this will eventually count against the pilot, just as some of the additional programming used by some of the pilots (macros) to improve their chance of 'a kill'. Consider this carefully, for in the spirit of the Military Combat, we have civilians to worry about, and those extra stingers that are fired have got to go somewhere. A helicopter, unlike a fixed wing aircraft that relies on constant movement, is suited for precision placement of the arsenal it carries.

Back to the programming...The safeguard hinges on the destruction of a certain number of drones in a group. As you and Rapid are aware bypassing WP1 can bring you to the yet activated and hovering drones...Destroying them or eventually wondering into a 'trigger area' will stop this suspended animation in other groups... but you are off course doing this, and not in prime position to deal with it...

And yes, it is an excellent map for study... thoughtfully and carefully written... The lack of a single author's name... plus, from what I can ascertain, a rush to produce the CD version of the game also lead me to believe this map a team effort.

:)

Edited to include: FYI... I am convinced of this timing issue being key, not luck or multitude of trys... due to the fact once you win the map, you can do it consistently without much effort.

:D





[Edited on 10-3-2002 by Bluetiereign]

I did it! Finally bested the droneys. The trick was to fly around the perimeter as before, but this time not shoot down ALL the "hanging" drones I encountered but rather only about half of them (# was just guesswork). That avoided activating most of the others that were yet off-radar (at max zoom-out). While I was flying around looking for more, I did get a couple of waves of drones attacking the suburbs, but was able to deal with them before they did too much damage. Then I was able to resume looking for other inactivated ones and deal with them. Again, a couple of groups got triggered and headed for Minsk, but (maybe because I'd thinned their ranks earlier?) was able to shoot 'em all down before too much damage done. And my reward for finally getting past this bugger was - nothing, it was the last mission in that campaign. Hah!

congrats good job :thumb:

Mega enthusiasm over one mission…now that’s some dedication! :ar15:

Quote:

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did it! Finally bested the droneys. The trick was to fly around the perimeter as before, but this time not shoot down ALL the "hanging" drones I encountered but rather only about half of them (# was just guesswork). That avoided activating most of the others that were yet off-radar (at max zoom-out). While I was flying around looking for more, I did get a couple of waves of drones attacking the suburbs, but was able to deal with them before they did too much damage. Then I was able to resume looking for other inactivated ones and deal with them. Again, a couple of groups got triggered and headed for Minsk, but (maybe because I'd thinned their ranks earlier?) was able to shoot 'em all down before too much damage done. And my reward for finally getting past this bugger was - nothing, it was the last mission in that campaign. Hah!

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The only thing I can say is you didn't actually beat the mission fairly and by going around and killing the hangers wasn't what the author had in mind, maybe now you can go in and actually fight the little devils on their terms and see how far you get!
:ar15::shocked2:

Rapid-

I read your post and while I was glad to see you continued to try and 'progressed' to the next stage... I cannot say that I agree with the way you managed to do it.

Another way to look at this Rapid - those 'hanging drones' - in an actual battle situation - would have not even been there... they would have likely been behind a very heavily guarded enemy line ...or aboard a ship surrounded by many others... Now imagine flying that Comanche in the middle of a fleet of ships with large numbers of stinger missles...and surviving to get back and destroy the drones that got by...

I can really appreciate your enthusiasm and persistance...If you are this dedicated to achieving your goal in everything... I'd be willing to bet, there is little you cannot do. I hope you will apply it winning the mission 'fair and square'.

Best Wishes...In the BlueTerrain

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those 'hanging drones' - in an actual battle situation - would have not even been there... they would have likely been behind a very heavily guarded enemy line ...or aboard a ship surrounded by many others.

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When squadrons of combat drones like these do become reality I doubt they will send in one helicopter to take them all out! The fact that Comanche 4 does shows its an arcade game and that its very unrealistic.

In real life they would probably send up some F-16s, F-15s or F/A-18s to take out those drones from long range with air-air missiles!






[Edited on 22-10-2002 by HardcoreUproar]

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When squadrons of combat drones like these do become reality I doubt they will send in one helicopter to take them all out! The fact that Comanche 4 does shows its an arcade game and that its very unrealistic.

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If my memory serves me correctly, propped drones are currently being used in combat. Better versions of them are currently in the process of being mass produced, due to the fact they are 'cheap' disposable weapons.

You don't run into standing padded steel girders or tires on the football field during a game... but you may push them down the field in practice to learn the best angle of attack, strengthen your legs and to learn to keep your feet moving without tripping over them. Whatever...

To you - an arcade game. To some flight sim fans... an engine extreme, that with more work, more sophisticated software and hardware..would mix well with the DF missions. To serious combatants able to separate themself from the rock'em -sock'em thrill ride... a way to study an opponents moves and his attitude.

Sorry, but I take the hardline here. Flirting with the idea that everything is 'in fun' doesn't sit well with me. I have fun playing Comanche... but the challenge isn't there. Besides, Comanche isn't really a good game to nurture a teamwork spirit. Fly in ...shoot'em up... who cares ? IMHO, that attitude stinks without serious debate about improvement.

But then, who care's ? It's just a video game.

Yes, it is just a video game! And games are meant to be fun. Which is why they made this Walt Disney helicopter game called Comanche 4! Its like flying a cartoon! But its great fun!

It is *not* a flight simulation. I wish there was an option where you could select a "flight sim" mode AND an "arcade mode", that would have been great!

I would put myself on the *hardline* when it comes to serious simulations, and when it comes to that - I agree with what you said!

But for Comanche 4? No way!...now...time to fire up the unlimited-ammo trainer!

Wheeeeeeeee

:bouncy:

Charger and Bluetie, I agree with you, the way I completed this mission was not fair and square. However I needed a shortcut, because I was never going to complete it otherwise - it was just too dang hard. Two factors are at work there. One is that I didn't have enough time to keep hammering it, at least with the learning curve I was on. The other was the lack of an in-game save feaure in C4; after a certain # of tries, if I haven't gotten it, it just gets too dull to keep starting over. I support having a game be hard enough that you have to settle for incremental improvements, and I'm down with delayed gratification; but in this particular mission I just wasn't getting anywhere without cheating. With all the rest so far I'm happy to play it straight up even if it's slow going. Except maybe for one other, the mission where you're trying to stop the terrorists from launching nukes; after many attempts that one is also impossible - so far. Not lookin' for the easy way out yet, though. I applaud those who solve these tough ones the "hard" way, though. Thanks again for your help and advice.

You CAN shoot down the drones with Stingers...the mision briefing suggests you cannot, but as long as you "paint" a drone with the stinger target reticle and its turns yellow.....the drone is going down in smoke!

Huh, I complete this mission ...

One funny thing: I live in Minsk ;)

Wondered if anyone would actually beat that mission. Nice job. After reading this thread I think I'm going to re-install Comanche 4 tonight and try it out...man I haven't played C4 in a while!:smokin.gif:

speaking of single player mode, the other chopper game that I"am trying out
has even more complex missions than C4. The **** chopper have twice as many weapons systems, targeting systems, goals, flying controls. But as far as online, well check out the sever link below.
http://hoxdna.org/eech/

Looks like this game died awhile back(online), **** shame, people really tried to save it with various updates that the company chose to abandoned.
Hardcore that auto lock key comes in handy huh.

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Originally Posted by JJG43

But as far as online, well check out the sever link below.
http://hoxdna.org/eech/

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LOL Looks alot like the C4 server list to me.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JJG43

speaking of single player mode, the other chopper game that I"am trying out
has even more complex missions than C4. The **** chopper have twice as many weapons systems, targeting systems, goals, flying controls. But as far as online, well check out the sever link below.
http://hoxdna.org/eech/

Looks like this game died awhile back(online), **** shame, people really tried to save it with various updates that the company chose to abandoned.
Hardcore that auto lock key comes in handy huh.

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Some places are asking still $50.00+ for that 2000 release. It was updated as late as August this year.

Unbelievable how differently Comanche 4 looks and plays on my computer from what I use to play it on, almost like this isn't the same game I was playing a few years ago. The details I never got to see with my old computer...can't believe how cool even the effects look now. I'm gonna go download some more custom maps...later.