Servers Allowing Hacks

[Rotor6]

All,

The operation of C4 servers to purposely allow the use of hacks, is unacceptable to the C4 Community and should be stopped and or boycotted.

Putting up a server and saying that you can run whatever cheat you have does three things... It makes the new pilots want them, It shows the rest of the community who has them (which confirms the cheat calls we all see), and it promotes the use of them in the other servers.

It's a sad day when a known and respected team puts up a server for this purpose, and an even sadder day when one of the most respected on that team defends the server and the use of those hacks.

[Bluetiereign]

Hopefully we'll see some discussion of this ?

[Santa AkA SoDam]

Hi R6

What hacks were they alowing?

And who was it?

[Rotor6]

Sidewinders, 30 mm, etc.. regardless of what it is.. it's wrong. Modding the game to use hacked weapons is not in keeping with honest game play.. Hotguns, rapid fire stings.. all discussed and all (basically) accepted.. TD, Nofog, Hacked weapons, etc....regardless if you advertise it.. are still hacked weapons or hacks..
No team, or server, should allow hacked files to be used. In order to maintain quality of game, and a level playing field, this should never be allowed.. let alone defended.. It's a hack.. they are hacks, and no one should have to tolerate their use.
email me...

[Reaper]

I guess the first thing to address is rather hacking the game = cheating.

My one hit weapons are posted here at CPD for download, they run server side so all players have the same settings. The mod I am working on now uses altered weapons, The night vision evn I bought into c4 uses a bin file you need to use a hack tool to create, most of the meds used to map were hacked to open up the utility so it could map better, the KOTH games and other locked games if I can get them to play will reqiure some kind of hacking to make them work. I could go on but you see my point.

If we are going to talk about cheating lets call it cheating, ie a player altering the game to give them an advantage.

The problem for honest players is having to play against the player who uses cheats to gain an advantage, when there is no way to control what all players in the server are running.

I play public servers very seldom cheats are the main reason why.

Humm should a squad run a anything goes server, I see you point Rotor, players will have easier access to cheats talking to the players in that server, Then you will have them in yours running with an advantage.

On the other hand, and I hate to say this but if players are going to run that way anyway having a server where anything goes takes away the advantage, then it's no longer a cheat un-till they use them in a stock server.

This is a no win for honest players who want to play stock, Sorry guys you lost this battle years ago, that's why there are so few players to play with most were ran off long ago.

Those of us who want a level playing field have to limit the people we play with to a hand full of those we trust and lock everyone else out. The problem with that is you do not meet new players to game with, the game becomes boring and you move on to another game where you play against cheaters again.

There is no way the honest player can have a level playing field in C4, At the end of the day all you can do is take pride in the fact you play honest, I hope that is good enough to keep you honest.

[Rotor6]

EXACTLY... how can you trust those who use these weapons? How can you fly a fair game, when the new guys and honest players do not use them or have them? How can you as a server operator allow them? If we all stand and say NO... as we have on TD and NoFog, then we can say no to this as well. We will back whatever the communtiy will okay... But for today.. these are still cheats, until a new game comes where we ALL get to choose the weapons we fight with, not some hack file that no one else has..
You sir are the Most Senior of this game that I know. I respect your decision.. and the work you are doing for all of us. If you say this is the way we should move, then someone needs to post all of the files for ALL of us... If not, they are..and will remain hacks.

[Reaper]

EXACTLY... how can you trust those who use these weapons? How can you fly a fair game, when the new guys and honest players do not use them or have them? How can you as a server operator allow them? If we all stand and say NO... as we have on TD and NoFog, then we can say no to this as well. We will back whatever the communtiy will okay... But for today.. these are still cheats, until a new game comes where we ALL get to choose the weapons we fight with, not some hack file that no one else has..
You sir are the Most Senior of this game that I know. I respect your decision.. and the work you are doing for all of us. If you say this is the way we should move, then someone needs to post all of the files for ALL of us... If not, they are..and will remain hacks.

While I mod and change the game to enchance game play, I DO NOT and NEVER will be a cheat. The players that want to run garbage will find it. But honest players need a place where even if cheats get in they at least feel the server has honor and trys to keep it fair.

The everyone does it so it's ok attitude cheats have hurts games, they are the reason many lose interest and do something else, the truth is I would rather play with a hand full of players who feel the way I do than a server full of cheats.

Players that think running cheats is no bid deal are theives, they steal the fun from the rest of us. They run off most players that would stay active and give us all more players to game with. If you run cheats and wonder why you only have a few players to play with. Look in the mirror its you and the other players like you that ran off the rest. Even error scoring and poor programming doesn't push away players like cheats do.

A game modder/map maker can only adjust the game map and mod items to give cheats less of an advantage, even cheat programs like punk buster must be updated on a reg basis to keep up with the cheats. Thats why most cheat protection coded by the community only lasts a few years before the guys who update it move on.

This is going where I am not comfortable so I am going to let the thread rest.
my last word on this is, Cheats, how to create or where to find them should not be posted on any respected game site including this one.

On the other hand before I release the mod maybe I can get someone to turn some of the stuff off in the .exe so it will not be as easy to turn it on or use the games program mistakes. No promises but I will look into it.

[Rotor6]

Bravo! Cheers to you Sir!

[Santa AkA SoDam]

@ yomullethead

This thread is about hacks and cheats, so I should be able to say what I want to you in here on this subject!

Does anyone have to make a reminder about humanity? What it means? What it stands for?
After all, we are all human right?

Nevertheless, I feel as though I have to make a small reminder.

If the programmers forgot or not to take out TD.
Is it morally right to use TD on a player, who does not even know that such a cheat exists?

Have you ever wondered why newbie’s don’t stay?
Its because they find out that some pilots cheat,

Also pilots including myself get indirectly accused of cheating, because newbies have been cheated on in the past, it was only the other day that someone asked me to turn off my firing macro, I had to explain to them that all my trigger does is press and hold the enter key, and even a newbie can do this.

This is the whole point; the game should be played as you brought it.
It doesn’t matter about what the programmers left in or out!!

I could use TD if i wanted to, but i know its wrong, it's not how i brought the game, so i wont do it.

You should not have to go messing with the game files, unless you are making those files available for all and that is what reaper is doing, and I back him 100%.

You should not have to go messing with the game files in order to gain an unfair advantage during play.

This is absolutely and morally wrong.

Moreover, anyone with any morals, will not even need to read this reminder!

[Reaper]

Well here goes:

There could be a place for the kind of server where anything goes, It is not what I would want to play but when you look at how other games play the things some players use in C4 would be a typical mod. Many of the games come stock with items like unlimited heath pickups, speed pick ups, body amour, advantage weapons and more. Most of the time these are scifi shooters but they are out there.

For the players that hold to the line, Nova put it in the game so we should be able to use it frame of mind. Nova bans players in BHD, Joint Ops, DFX and DFX2 for exploiting the game, This means using hidden game settings, glitching do to poor collision boxes because the game has program errors all games do. Nova has a list of rules for how players have to play. It is on the list.

The mods I made for C4 would get me banned in one of the other Nova games if I ran in a nova server with the files running, So would some mods I downloaded and used in BHD, by the way Charger mapped for one of them.

The problem with a server who lets players run any way they want is not what they run, or how they hack the game. It is the way it was implimented.

Step back in time to 5 years ago, but change the way this came down a bit.

Doc comes in and posts he found hidden commands Nova left in the game that turn on stuff we don't know about, Tells the community he wants to get help to turn them into mod, then says he wants to put sidewinders in and turn off the fog.

Then he says we need to find a way to lock the mod so it can not be used in the other servers.

Many of the older players would have helped him do it. My self included. The reason why is it's a game, Go ahead and set it up to play any way you want.
But protect the players that do not want to play that way. Get someone to recode the exe, change the game files so players can not use it in a stock server.

It is not what you do to the game that makes it a cheat, It is how you use the stuff you did to it.

The squad that is running the server could have done this a better way, and instead of the problem it is going to cause, it could have helped the community instead of dividing it more.

my 2 cents any way

[MasterX(BKC)]

off topic sorry,

Reaper hop in my TS if your not busy!

IP: 207.36.180.151:10000
password: rankplay

[GarretJax]

I really think that the community needs to unify in some fashion or form...I mean the numbers here are not that great for most players ...new and old...Theres good # of Vets to keep things going...but really any new play should be welcomed regardless of what package it comes in right! Fill the servers up cheaters and hackers and all.......The ones that decide to stay around will most likely end up like we did...hehe......good honest gamers lookin for a friendly game and some excitement.......:musicboohoo.gif:

C4 still my favorite game ( wish I could get in the servers more often)......shoot I'm not sure if I could tell if someone was cheatin on me or not anyway:bouncing:

[Ken8254]

Dear Rotor 6,

First I let say thank you for calling me a respected member of my team. (although I think your respect for me might have changed) My contention is not about the issue of cheats as much as the attitude you came in with on that day.

The day you are writing about was the first day I have ever been in that server. I was playing friendly game with a few of old friends and you came in the game yelling a screaming like Barny Fife about cheats. No one was cheating in that server. Someone did give me a demonstration about side winders but none of us was using them in the game.

My contention is your war against my team members including Viper. You have been at war a long time. It is time for you to change that. I think your condescending attitude has been displayed not only against our team members but also against the new flyers you will not allow in your server (griffins). Time for a change!

I have never cheated nor will I and I believe my team mates deserve a bit more respect than you have given them.

I fly to have fun your attitude stifles that fun. I hope the next time you come in you can just fly and shoot with us please keep it fun.

__________________________________

Respectfully,
Ken

[Rotor6]

First of all, I called the server a hack server.. I never screamed,,LOL hard to do when not on TS... And yes I HATE HACKS and those who use them, allow them, and tolerate them.
I am not at war with your squad, never been.. Many I still have contact with on the side. I am at war with an individual on the squad., and he knows why...and so are many others... That is all there is....

Call me what you will.. I will not change my determination or my position. I love to play free of this BS.. And to come to a server where the 8AP is saying that anything goes.. Is BS...
Regardless whether you are running the cheats or not, you sir, should have left as I did, instead of definding the position as you did.. I believe it was you who told me to "Go to CFS if you dont like it"


Dear Rotor 6,


The day you are writing about was the first day I have ever been in that server. I was playing friendly game with a few of old friends and you came in the game yelling a screaming like Barny Fife about cheats. No one was cheating in that server. Someone did give me a demonstration about side winders but none of us was using them in the game.

__________________________________

Respectfully,
Ken

[Bluetiereign]

Ken8254.

Please see --> THIS (http://www.checkpointdelta.net/showthread.php?postid=23879#post23879)<-- post

[HotShotFWP]

Wow, is it hot in here or what?

This is my personal view and the BlackSheep Squadron view on this server allowing hacks matter.

I hate cheats. Usually, a cheat means an unfair advantage one player has over another. I have never cheated in C4, and my intention is to keep it that way. I do have a sympathetic view to reveal later, though.

I think that Rotor 6 makes a strong point when he communicates that if a server allows hacks and or cheats (things that give a player an unfair advantage over another player), who knows if that hack and cheat wont be used in a server that doesn't allow hacks or cheats? This means that a player can use hacks and cheats in another server. For approval, that player is a NO GO!

However, if it is possible that a server allows hacks and cheats and all players have access to all these hacks and cheats, that puts every player on an equal playing level, and it appears to be OK. If any players don't agree with that server allowing these hacks and cheats, let that player stay away from that server, while it is allowing cheats. As said by GarretJax, some players like using cheats, and that attractiveness is drawing players and populating servers. That can be a good thing, if by some means we can get them to be honest no hack and no cheat players, if only for just periods of play at a time. Also, it's just freakin' fun for the players who like using the hacks and cheats against each other.

As a matter of the rule of fairplay, the BlackSheep Squadron does not condone cheating (unfair advantages in gameplay). Our squadron leader, =BsS=Haze, has always disapproved of cheating in C4, he and our squadron members abide by the rule of fairplay gaming, and we will remain a promoter of fairplay gaming.

[<KA7>MONTROSE]

I have been around for years, for give the old tags. From Griff to BKC to KA7 and now to CFS. I dont fly much any more I just dont play as much as i used to.... the Questions of Hacks or alowing them should always be No. I play MANY other games and I know there here. But for the Respect that most of the ppl steal show here as an honor system is Much greater than the other games. Honor is something that got me so in to this game years ago. we are a small but close group. most have been flying under one tag or another for years. There will always be cheats here and everywhere. Games, and real life.. Fun is the name of the game and we should keep in mind we are not a young a growing game is to have a new player come in we should be like the old. care for and grow the flyers but keep the cheats out if we keep the cheats outs of our severs the ones who we teach the Right way(i mean all of us) will stay and add what we all want our community. Quality pilots that stay. Not come cheat and leave. NO CHEATS NO CHEATS NO CHEATS.... PLAYERS OR SERVERS if we can keep it out then do it...... turning a blind eye is no fix.

[MasterX(BKC)]

Dear Rotor 6,

First I let say thank you for calling me a respected member of my team. (although I think your respect for me might have changed) My contention is not about the issue........................

Ken, i have been on these boards for a long time... have a look at my join date, i have been here longer than many people posting in this thread, just see the join dates on the sidebar, not to put you down, but lets just agree that i have been here long enough to be able to judge character on some people here much more accuratly than you. After all you did join last month.

My point is this, I have flown schrims, matches, free-for-alls, and more with most of these guys, for a while on a regular basis. Me and Rotor6 didnt get along very well as i seem to remember, but thats just how we were, it wasnt any problem in particular, we just didnt get along for very long at all. But with full certainty i can tell you of him, if he called you out on something, he wasnt just blowing hot air because you do or dont fly good or bad, or just because he can, if he said piddly squat about you, there was a valid reason!

I'm not saying he is or isnt correct in thinking you are cheating or that your connection does or doesnt suck, but i am saying he doesnt do this out of a whim from so n so.

I used to play on 33.6K and it sucked, but the same goes for those playing with you, a dialuper who flys through mountains, teleports, and commits other lag invoked glitches isnt much fun to play with....

BTW, if you were playing with sidewinders by editting your weapon slots, i was (unfortunatly) the original author of that code which i wish i had never discovered or shared with anyone. Using it for your gaming is just plain stupid because most of us old timers know how to tell what you are firing and about a select few bugs which ONLY occur in the presence of these edits!


Last EDIT i promise:
I need some testers for my comanche project, anyone with BF2 and some free time come to my teamspeak:
207.36.180.151:10000
pw=rankplay

[ReapeR 4]

NO CHEATS NO CHEATS NO CHEATS NO CHEATS

Need I say MORE ? :D

[GarretJax]

I never have and never will condone cheating...but I just really dont like the idea of banning anyone new or old in this community......Hotshot and Knuckles I applaud your views in this matter........unbiased and forgiving!:thumb:

Play for the fun and not for the kill (not that blowing up someones chopper isnt fun):saint2:

[CaP]

The First reason i joined CFS was, I could plainly see they fought Honorably. I too agree with Rotor, Reaper,and So ****. Either we were tought self discipline or we weren't.
Hacks....Badddddddd Honor.....Gooooooddd.