Question NILE or MED for JO/E IC Mod

[ZAK]

hello:waving.gif: , I have a Question on you Map Makers, what finds its Better? MED or NILE?
I strained on your answers.

wtf
ZAK

[Reaper]

Not Even close Med. Nile was never even finished.
Heres a list of things you can do with the med that Nile Can't:

Use area triggers, That is how Nova put toxic water on the map. Mappers can use a work around ie ssn near ssn wac script to trigger events but its not near as good as an area trigger.

Use groups to trigger events.

Create a bin file and add place names, name the ai in coop or single player missions. Mission goals and be able to get them checked off as you play the mission.

Create almost all of the events, With Nile you need to write wac script for most of them.

With Nile most mappers fix the map with another utility (messed up way points and other things Nile breaks.) With another utility.

Med is much more stable, Nile crashed and scrambled way points on every map I used it for but dm maps.

There are other things Nile wont do also this it just a short list.

The only good thing about Nile was the world view so you can see what the map looks like as you build it. If your building maps with no events it's good to use if it doesn't crash. other wise it's a waist of time.

My 2 cents any way.

[ZAK]

Hello Reaper, Thanks for you Answer, I hope I hear more Opinions of others Map Makers.

ZAK :waving.gif:

[Charger]

I totally agree with Reaper on Med. I could never get Nile to do anything without a work around or had to revert to Med.

[WiperSix]

I too strained on the answer


wtf

cheers

[Reaper]

I too strained on the answer


wtf

cheers

Some times Zacs English is hard to understand, But his English is better than my German ie NONE lol.

[ZAK]

Lol Reaper, and I think my English is very Bad :2ar15smilie:

wfg :waving.gif:
ZAK

[Bluetiereign]

What I can't understand is the -> wtf <- in the sign offs.... I know what it usually stands for, and it seems an odd way of saying Sincerely or Regards... or whatever...

[ZAK]

I totally agree with Reaper on Med. I could never get Nile to do anything without a work around or had to revert to Med.

Yes, with the MED goes more options for Start Events as by NILE. I say Only Area Triger :099.gif: for me is NILE what for beginners, and the MED what for Experts :yelclap.gif:

wfg
ZAK

[JET-WTF]

Niles Little Helper is going to shareware, pay to use just to get some of the things med gives for free.

[ZAK]

Yes, this is True.

wfg
ZAK

[JET-WTF]

Heres a nice thread about NLH: http://www.action-inside.com/showthread.php?t=18000

Oldman brought in a friend to do defense for his actions. oh what fun and lets see if i get banned...

anyway Nile is an incomplete program, Med is incomplete as well but functional enough to not need a third party to even make a coop/sp map. Hell oldtimers using the C4 Med will have no problems migrating to the DFX med. and i actualy prefer wireframe and not world view.

[Reaper]

I could care less if NLH went pay to use and always thought Nile was a peice of junk. I started using the med as soon as DFX was released and found out that med worked for Joint Ops. But I can understand why mappers are angry over the way Old Man handled this.

That being said the real ass hats here are NOVA LOGIC. Lets go back in history a bit. Nova released JOTR with no map maker. When mappers complained Nova said we would get one soon. Soon turned out to be many months down the road.

I picked up JOTR the first day of release. One of the first things I found out was there was no single player missions, I dont count the training missions. Or death match, hummm well I went to go look at the med to make some. Guess what no med, no map editor of any kind.

When Nova released the first Nile beta, if you could even call it beta. It was missing most of the basic things mappers use. It crashed and you really couldn't make a coop mission with it. Nova didn't even use it for JOTR, they did make a few maps for JOE but no coop.

When mappers complained on the Nova Community Forums we were told, it isn't cost effective to pay someone to work on mapping software. If I remember correctly the lead programmer for Nile left Nova not long after the JOE was released.

But I was able to create enough Dm maps to run a server for the guys I play with. Then Nova released a patch and broke dm for JOTR. At that time I had enough of Nova. No decent map editor and all the maps I had created some of these were coops also were toast. The patch broke other things besides just dm.


I am not gonna bash Nova here for thier game support. I am just saying the real issue here isn't a guy who programmed a third party utility to fix stuff in Nile and now wants to get paid for it. The problem is with Nova releasing a map editor that doesn't work.

With that said I have a question for those of you who map. If Nova was to decide they were going to charge for a map editor.

Would you pay for it?.
If you wouldn't. Would it turn you way from buying the game at all?.
If you would, how much would you be willing to pay?.

I'll start, I made over 50 dm maps, around 25 coops, and around 15 single player missions. in a 2 year period. I consider mapping part of the entertainment I buy Nova games for. I spend more time mapping than playing.

If Nova started putting mapping software out you had to pay for. I would want to sample the software before I paid for it because of the game support I have seen.

If it worked I would be willing to pay up to 30 dollars if it was a game I was going to spend a few years on.

As a side note after mapping for C4, and BHD Once I was able to use the med for JOTR the things you could do in COOP and single player missions were really great. You could design any kind of mission you could think of I have mapped for other games also, The last 1 was GRAW. But no other game gave me the controle over mapping that JOTR does.

[Q-dad~TAG]

I agree with paying for mapping tools. The same goes for modding tools, since I mod much more than I play...

[Bluetiereign]

I agree with paying for mapping tools. The same goes for modding tools, since I mod much more than I play...

You prepping us for the arrival of the x3di tool ? :tumble:

__________________________________________________ ___________

Paying for a MOD/Mapping tool is one thing. Ambushing the current users with an expiration of their current tool - forcing them to purchase the newer one - is another matter entirely.

I don't see anything in that thread that warrants a ban. No cheats published, no name calling... I don't see it.

On a matter not discussed...

I checked out NLH when I first saw this thread a couple of weeks ago. There were several factors that prevented me from chipping in 'for the cause' (the main one being... I don't map anymore)....but there were other reasons.
I couldn't get a version even close to the functionality of the new one to see the pro's and con's of the utility.
I couldn't see the forum with a discussion expressing opinions, complaints and functions of the tool.
The price. That's right, the price...see belowIMHO, $10 is too much for a tool that is nothing more than an addon to another tool for mapping. Sell me the tool that does the same thing - without needing the original - and I'm interested even at that price.

But in all honesty, basic economics is in my decision too. Despite the declarations otherwise - I see greed - and I'll tell you why. He had tons of users using the free versions. When he looked over the masses using it already, he counted on $10 a head with that crowd. Now he has to keep it - or offer a refund. If he had offered that tool for $2 - he would have had 10x the buyers - essentially doubling his money while and benefiting the WHOLE community.

[JET-WTF]

I agree with you Blue, and that is truly my point. the preplanned disabling of NLH 7 to force those people to buy V8.x. It was plain wrong to disable the older free once the new version came out.

I personaly use Med so NLH is not needed, but like you said if it was $2 for the paid version that has much more functions and i was using the free version i would have no problem shelling out the money for the better program.

Make a .3di program that works good Dad, and ill buy it for $10, but first i want to give it a test run....

[ZAK]

This can NILE NOT! this is the First AAS (Multiplayer) Map with Tank Supporting when you Team Lost a Number on 3 or 4 Tanks.
This AAS Map coming Up in 5 Weeks.

[Q-dad~TAG]

I agree with paying for mapping tools. The same goes for modding tools, since I mod much more than I play...
What I meant was that I would pay for such tools made by the game company..., but only if they provided a certain degree of support and fixing/patching for it... These days, though, if a game company releases such tools, it's common to release them for free...

As far as tools made by the community for the community, I will always believe they should be free... People put in lots of their spare time for the community, either by simply playing a lot (which keeps the game alive and the number of servers up), or by posting in forums a lot and helping others, or by creating/administering the community web sites and forums, or by arranging tournaments, or by making maps, or by making mods, or by making tools, etc... Why should a creator of tools feel so special that he/she needs to be paid for the effort...? Asking for donations is acceptable, though...

Anyway, if I should ever release a tool, I would never make people pay for it... About X3di, it was not really going to be a tool for newer games. It was to be a tool for converting 3di files between old games like DF1, DF2, AF3, LW/TFD and maybe a few more even older ones... My priority was going to be to make it able to convert 3di files to DF2 from those other games, though... It was also going to be able to create DF2 3di files from for instance an .obj file, i.e. a similar tool as the one in the BHD MOD Tools...

After Doc died, though, I haven't even touched Delphi, and it's not installed on my current PC... However, during the current work of finishing TXP2 for DF2 (to be released on April 11th), I have managed to write some scripts, using the relatively simple scripting language of WinHex, for converting DF1, LW/TFD and some of the AF3 items to DF2 (still not finished, though), so I have no personal urge right now to continue with the X3di tool... After TXP2 has been finished, though, I might start up the work on X3di again, at least for the purpose of making it possible to create new items for DF2...

[JET-WTF]

These days, though, if a game company releases such tools, it's common to release them for free...

They release for free because they know that when people use them and release what they made then it keeps people playing their game, and also with knowing that those people will buy their next release because they enjoyed the last so much. simple marketing.

usualy those tools are also ones that the developer used to make missions or even add the objects to the game in the first place. so they spent money making the tools so they could make the game in the first place. and releasing them cost them $0, gains them repeat customers, free advertising, and even new customers.

[WiperSix]

I for two agree,

and I have strained myself on the reply



wtf


cheers