Failure of an idea... and a people

[Anthony]

Failure of an idea... and a people (http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=46315)

The real disaster of Katrina was that society broke down. An entire community could not cope. Liberalism, the idea that good intentions and government programs can build a Great Society, was exposed as fraud. After trillions of tax dollars for welfare, food stamps, public housing, job training and education have poured out since 1965, poverty remains pandemic. But today, when the police vanish, the community disappears and men take to the streets to prey on women and the weak.

In his 1935 State of the Union Address, FDR spoke to a nation mired in the Depression, but still marinated in conservative values:

"[C]ontinued dependence" upon welfare, said FDR, "induces a spiritual disintegration fundamentally destructive to the national fiber. To dole our relief in this way is to administer a narcotic, a subtle destroyer of the human spirit."

Behind FDR's statement was the conviction that, while the government must step in in an emergency, in normal times, men provide the food, clothing and shelter for their families.

And we did, until the war pulled us out of the Depression and a postwar boom made us, in John K. Galbraith's phrase, "The Affluent Society." By the 1960s, America, the richest country on earth, was growing ever more prosperous. But with the 1964 landslide of LBJ, liberalism triumphed and began its great experiment.

Behind the Great Society was a great idea: to lift America's poor out of poverty, government should now take care of all their basic needs. By giving the poor welfare, subsidized food, public housing and free medical care, government will end poverty in America.

At the Superdome and New Orleans Convention Center, we saw the failure of 40 years of the Great Society. No sooner had Katrina passed by and the 17th Street levee broke than hundreds of young men who should have taken charge in helping the aged, the sick and the women with babies to safety took to the streets to shoot, loot and rape. The New Orleans police, their numbers cut by deserters who left their posts to look after their families, engaged in running gun battles all day long to stay alive and protect people.

It was the character and conduct of its people that makes the New Orleans disaster unique. After a hurricane, people's needs are simple: food, water, shelter, medical attention. But they can be hard to meet. People buried in rubble or hiding in attics of flooded homes are tough to get to. But, even with the incompetence of the mayor and governor, and the torpor of federal officials, this was possible.

Coast Guard helicopters were operating Tuesday. There were roads open into the city for SUVs, buses and trucks. While New Orleans was flooded, the water was stagnant. People walked through to the convention center and Superdome. The flimsiest boat could navigate.

Even if government dithered for days – what else is new – this does not explain the failure of the people themselves.

Between 1865 and 1940, the South – having lost a fourth of its best and bravest in battle, devastated by war, mired in poverty – was famous for the hardy self-reliance of her people, black and white.

In 1940, hundreds of British fishermen and yachtsmen sailed back and forth daily under fire across a turbulent 23-mile Channel to rescue 300,000 soldiers from Dunkirk. How do we explain to the world that a tenth that number of Americans could not be reached in four days from across a stagnant pond?

The real disaster of Katrina was that society broke down. An entire community could not cope. Liberalism, the idea that good intentions and government programs can build a Great Society, was exposed as fraud. After trillions of tax dollars for welfare, food stamps, public housing, job training and education have poured out since 1965, poverty remains pandemic. But today, when the police vanish, the community disappears and men take to the streets to prey on women and the weak.

Stranded for days in a pool of fetid water, almost everyone waited for the government to come save them. They screamed into the cameras for help, and the reporters screamed into the cameras for help, and the "civil rights leaders" screamed into the cameras that Bush was responsible and Bush was a racist.

Americans were once famous for taking the initiative, for having young leaders rise up to take command in a crisis. See any of that at the Superdome? Sri Lankans and Indonesians, far poorer than we, did not behave like this in a tsunami that took 400 times as many lives as Katrina has thus far.

We are the descendants of men and women who braved the North Atlantic in wooden boats to build a country in a strange land. Our ancestors traveled thousands of miles in covered wagons, fighting off Indians far braver than those cowards preying on New Orleans' poor.

Watching that performance in the Crescent City, it seems clear: We are not the people our parents were. And what are all our Lords Temporal now howling for? Though government failed at every level, they want more government.

FDR was right. A "spiritual disintegration" has overtaken us. Government-as-first provider, the big idea of the Great Society, has proven to be "a narcotic, a subtle destroyer of the human spirit."

Either we get off this narcotic, or it kills us.

[nakulak]

The assumption is that you believe in that narcotic in the first place.

Those of you who might catch bill oreilly may have seen the reaction from many segments of the population to his assertion that you can't depend on the government to bail you out (especially the federal government), as he was speaking directly to the Katrina affair. The idea of endowments as a way of life is faulty in that respect as borne out by the facts.

But your argument encompasses a much broader idea that you should consider: Do humans evolve ? Consider the fact that in recorded history, and I am including cave drawings in this regard, there is little or no evidence that humans have evolved one iota. The golden rule, the twelve commandments, meditation, passive resistance - humans have conducted themselves in the same fashion that they have since <whenever>. We kill over food, property lines, revenge, greed, or <whatever>, and commit the same atrocities, the same mistakes, the same <whatever> ad infinitum, with careless disregard to the past, our self-stated ethics, politics, religion, or <whatever applies>. So don't blame big government, small government, communism, capitalism, the proletariat, free speech, dictators, or <insert your cause here>. The fact is that, quod erat demonstratum, human behaviour is the culprit, not <insert your reason here>. So until humans evolve to a higher standard of conduct, you can expect more of the same, here and everywhere, regardless as to whether the business at hand is conducted with nuclear weapons, sticks and stones, or <whatever>.

(as to your argument, I think its very complicated and some points well taken, others are highly oversimplified. sorry I skirted above and beyond the point but feel stongly that humans in general will never go one more step forward until the overwhelming majority of humans see there way clear to taking the next step in reaching a higher standard of ethical reality and shed the tide of petty, foolish, small minded outlooks which continue to permeate the world - every city, every country, every family, every religion, every faction, every group, whether its a gun drawn on a street corner, an army invading another country, those determined to blow others up, or those determined to hate - its got to stop, and I see no end in sight. So the result is, that we are exactly the people are parents were (unfortunately), because we are unwilling to learn from past mistakes. Do not glorify ancestors by erasing their mistakes, or you will have erased the inquisition, two world wars, the atrocities perpetrated on the american indians, and countless other debacles that are only about to be repeated again and again.)

[Bluetiereign]

This is going to come across as callous, but what bothers me is that I'm going to end up paying, thru taxes and higher prices, for people to get back on their feet after choosing to live in a hole next to the ocean - and build critical oil refineries in a section of the nation that is so vulnerable. I'm reminded of the comic who screamed at his television everytime he looked at the starving people in Africa... " hey, get the **** out of the desert, there is nothing there, you're gonna starve !!" It is no different than anything else in life... you smoke and you increase your chances of cancer, you gamble and you might lose money, you play with fire and you might get burnt...etc. They took the risk, let them pay. Even now, the state with the largest economy in the Nation (CA) sits on a fault that is a ticking time bomb... I just don't get it. Before I get blasted... I'm not referring to the children, elderly or infirm - they ARE victims. I'm talking about mature adults that have(had) a chance to make a wiser decision about where to live or build critical businesses.

Until we strip our government's representatives of benefits that are so much greater than those they represent - there will be no realistic handling of real situations..

In reference to the tsunami victims, the wealthy are going to have to let go of their money. The gap between the 'haves' and 'have nots' in this country is just too large. In other words, what is someone with nothing going to steal from someone with nothing ? Pat Buchanan is just another rich boy avoiding the real issue - fewer and fewer are holding more and more of the money. Either realize it and handle it - or get used to it.

[Anthony]

That is very callous BTR. I am living here in paradise next to the ocean so that you do not have to. So if that seismic activity occurs I am not only going to be in shock, I will be anxiously waiting for my goverment to rebuild all that we lost (at your expense of course). And should you not respond quickly to my needs I will have no choice but to curse you.

I hear you had a tornado watch earllier?

[Bluetiereign]

That is very callous BTR. I am living here in paradise next to the ocean so that you do not have to. So if that seismic activity occurs I am not only going to be in shock, I will be anxiously waiting for my goverment to rebuild all that we lost (at your expense of course). And should you not respond quickly to my needs I will have no choice but to curse you.

I hear you had a tornado watch earllier?

LMAO Anthony. I have a gut feeling our thoughts on this aren't too different anyway.

I don't begrudge you living in 'paradise'. However, knowing the risks... people shouldn't expect those making wiser decisions about where to live pay for their playing. YOU play - YOU pay. Gamble with your own money... you have the habit, pay for it...etc.

Tornado watch ? .. not in these mountains. Besides, I live in a basement apartment. :)

[Charger]

This is going to come across as callous, but what bothers me is that I'm going to end up paying, thru taxes and higher prices, for people to get back on their feet after choosing to live in a hole next to the ocean - and build critical oil refineries in a section of the nation that is so vulnerable. I'm reminded of the comic who screamed at his television everytime he looked at the starving people in Africa... " hey, get the **** out of the desert, there is nothing there, you're gonna starve !!"

I'm still weighing out my honest opinion on the whole issue. The blacks are making this a racial issue and blaming Bush, Bush didn't react fast enough. I think thats true. I can agree to the above statement totally but I have to wonder what the real issue to this whole ordeal really is. A catastrophe happen and people got caught up in the middle of something they had no control over, but instead of trying to help one another they pretty much took the intuitive to help themselves, looting, raping and allowed the situation to become uncivilized and tottaly out of control. Even the police broke down. What I see is that for the people who needed help and possibly looked for authority figures to be there to give them support, didn't find it. Instead what they got was police as well as everyone else looting and pretty much acting out a scene from Escape Form New York.

I know theres more to this situation and I shouldn't even reply because my only thought is I'm appalled that people, White, Black, Grey or otherwise should act like this in the face of danger by looting and raping innocent people. I don't know if it was a majority of people but it seem to be the focal point in every news cast.

[RAB]

....... I'm appalled that people, White, Black, Grey or otherwise should act like this in the face of danger by looting and raping innocent people. I don't know if it was a majority of people but it seem to be the focal point in every news cast.

Well that's what the news is for. Take a bad situation and force everybody to watch it until there is no other feeling left but apathy.

[Anthony]

LMAO Anthony. I have a gut feeling our thoughts on this aren't too different anyway.
A little. I don't fault anyone for wanting to earn more money, our country was built on capitalism. And I don't believe that just because you have earned much more than I that you should share your wealth. Philanthropy is and should be a personal choice.

[nakulak]

there's a slight difference between capitalism and the collusion of the oil monopolies to rape the american people for fun and profit. Why no anit-trust or federal racketeering charges have been levied ? simple - when you have at least half of congress in your back pocket, not to mention the executive office, who needs to worry ?

[Bluetiereign]

A little. I don't fault anyone for wanting to earn more money, our country was built on capitalism. And I don't believe that just because you have earned much more than I that you should share your wealth. Philanthropy is and should be a personal choice.

..and I wasn't really referring to 'sharing' their wealth. What I was referring to was that we have CEO's making hundreds of millions of dollars a year while the people actually doing the work in their plants and places of business don't even make enough to occupy a decent home or even be insured.

A quick example of an industry with which I am familiar. Look at the healthcare industry. They will pay the CEO of a company over 100 million a year...while some of the people caring for the patients and nearly all of those cooking or cleaning - could qualify for public assistance. That is BS. It may be 100% capitalism - but it is also 100% greed.

So, answer honestly, can you really blame those that ' have not ' stealing from those ' have ' - after being cultured (or home grown) in this type of capitalist enviroment ? I don't. I've got nothing to steal... I own very little. This is because I do the work for another who is, beyond doubt, stealing a lions share. So, I have no pity for those find themselves being robbed when the playing field is literally leveled.

I look at it like this... someone like Buchanan can horde his money and blame the government and face being robbed - or he can wake up and give his cab driver a nice tip - and find his cab driver giving him a break when the day of reckoning and a level playing field is the rule.

[Reaper]

How we wish there would be a day of reckoning. A level playing field, Greedy corrupt CEO's would receive more than a slap on the hand after being convicted. Big brother wouldn't look the other way while there peers continue to practice fraud, embezzlement, insider trading and all the rest of the white collar crimes they become involved in.

Oil company's making record profits while pushing the price of fuel higher and higher. Lying about a war on terrorism when they wont protect our own borders. The list of abuse goes on and on.

The sad part is Americans complain about it. But do very little to change the world we live in. Over all most of use have food on the table a roof over our heads and don't want to hit back wear it would have the most effect.

Who is willing to walk or ride a bike 10 miles to work, then the store and any other place you need to go. Everyday for a month and not buy fuel. Or Better yet refuse to work at all. Most revolutions take place when the masses are hungry and have nothing to lose.

I believe the looting and other conduct we saw was a small % of the whole. I live about 4 hours from the Bay Area in California. When the last major earth quake hit that area and pan caked the freeway in Oakland, another area mostly minority. The people from that area came out of the wood work, pulling trapped and dieing people out of the wreckage.

By the time the war in Iraq is over, the damage from the hurricanes is paid for we will see some hungry masses. Of course Halliburton and it's subsidiaries will have made billions of dollars. As will many cronies of this administration. Then there may be some changes. But our Great Grandchildren will get to finish paying it all off.

As far as the delay being a black issue, Lets face it if they were poor white people it would not have happened any faster.

Besides the most corrupt still have the best weapon............................................ .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. ...........................Divide and conquer.

[Anthony]

..and I wasn't really
OOOOPS !
I hate when that happens :butt:

I think that both of you somehow missed the point of Buchanan's article. It is not about corrupt CEO's, the board of directors that appointed this CEO, or even the shareholders that appointed them.

It simply points out the famous liberal thought that money will fix all problems. The thinking that throwing money to the impoverished will somehow create a great community that will strive on it's own. On the contrary, by doing so has simply created a people that have little drive to improve their community or themselves. And now after a disaster they now expect the government to rebuild their lives. They even have the audacity to expect it immediately, and will quickly curse the government that is not doing it fast enough.

I am offended. I'm not wealthy, I own nothing. And now through taxes and increased insurance rates I will be forced to pay for the rebuilding of "those people". Insurance carriers will be forced by liberals and attorneys to pay claims beyond their liability, and even forced to pay claims that are completely unwarranted. These insurance companies will then immediately begin to regain their losses from you and I.

I should have went to Law School and become the real scum of our country. Unfortunately my spoon was wooden, and I had to work for it.

[HUTCH SC95]

good to have ya back ant/rust/ or whatever ya call yourself these days

I couldn't agree more , especially after the reaction, on Rita, i wonder why the difference.

the concept of social democracy has and is spreading rapid in both our governments, when is it going to stop,

Country's are not Companies and Citizen's are not Employee's right?????

[Bluetiereign]

Yeah, well.. I do understand what Buchanan is saying duder. On that point, he is correct, the government's help (our money) has not nurtured or cultered a society that is looking to improve their plight. But until it is worth it to work for everyone - this dependence on government assistance breeding this attitude will remain. The wealthy ARE still the guilty party though..IMHO. They are paying the contributions to get these idiots elected - the ones that pass these monetary assistance bills (while helping themselves, for sure) meant to pacify the masses and to hire civil protection from those from whom they steal.

You cannot pay people fairly when you value a man's contribution to getting something done - so much greater than another. However, Ben and Jerry's (http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn?pagename=article&contentId=A3204-2000Apr12&notFound=true) is an example of how much those wanting to be wealthy at the expense of another - hate the idea of a fair payscale. CEO's couldn't bear the thought of only making 5 times what the lowest paid in the company make. This must be true where I work also.. The CEO of the company, who will never come in direct contact with any of the people his company 'cares for' will make 4200 times what an aide will make for feeding, bathing, dressing and comforting 20 people on his/her shift (it could be 10 if we could hire another aide, so he/she could give better care... but then the CEO might have to take a pay cut and only earn 4199.9999 times what the aide is making).

[Charger]

Some people in boats in New Orleans asked some residents if they wanted help getting to safty...one resident stated that he didn't want to leave in case the mailman delivered his welfare check, mentioning "it's not a very safe neighborhood."

A person in the boat told the man that it was highly unlikely the mail would come through in such a devastating situation and once again offered the man help to safety. The man once again declined and quoted the United States Postal Service motto...

"Neither snow nor rain not heat nor gloom of night stays these couriers from the swift completion of their appointed rounds."

The boat rider shook his head and drove away...

[Anthony]

The wealthy ARE still the guilty party though..IMHO.
You know that I am no wealthy. The majority of my life I have spent in Corporate and share the frustrations that you have. How these companies can allow themselves to become so top heavy is beyond me (not really, I see the corruption). Hence my desire to get out, and therefore start from nothing (literally nothing). I admit there were other circumstances (family, virtues, etc) that prompted this.

But what type of economy (freedom, or lack of) would you prefer? Perhaps that of Karl Marx or Friedrich Engels? That manifesto would certainly rebuild the damaged ports and economic necessity of that region at the loss of your willingness to do so or not. And of the people... We'll just have to ship them to Siberia, or in our case any land left in Alaska.

Stop. Think. We do think the same. Once you realize the media spin that has your brain in confusion you will see the liberal agenda destroying all that our ancestors died to create for us.