Please help: C4 dumps on recent computer hardware ?

[SimFan]

I am a big fan of NL and the Comanche series.
On my old PC, C4 ran great (with GF3 vid card).
On my new system (not overclocked!), I can't get it to run without frequent sysdumps and/or freezes.
I have tried to use several msvcrt.dll versions.
Several video driver versions.
WHEN C4 runs, it does run and look incredible at 1600X1200 - 8XAA - 16XAF.
There seems to be no reason for it to suddenly dump or freeze.
I have tried Fast writes ON and OFF. Does not change the problem.
Sometimes it does not happen for an hour, sometimes it happens every minute or so.
I did have to change the (c4.cfg) config file manually, cause C4 only 'approved' 1024X768. However, I have seen many tests (on hardware sites) supposedly running C4 at higher res.
I am using XP Pro SP2 - AMD 64 3500+ - GF 6800GT 61.77.
Can anyone here get C4 to run (w/o crashes) on more recent systems.
I am desperate. Please help.

Any idea is wellcome.
BTW. many other games and sims run just fine (EECH/EEAH - LockOn a.o.)

[JJG43]

A few of the my fellow players have mentioned:
1) variable fan speed for the cpu, they had to disable it
2) turned off the hyper threading( P # 4 )
3) clean out your c4 folder

I usually always get one or two a night when ever I play.Alot of people have experinced the same problem that is happening to you.

[SimFan]

Thx for your reply JJG43.

- JJG43, do you mean it always happens, whatever you do ?

- Cleaning out the C4 folder ???
I read about that one, but there is no 'Cache' folder AFAIK.

- Fan of the AMD64 CPU does run at fixed speed (no Cool 'n Quiet etc.)

- P4 does not apply in my case. I read here that indeed that also creates problems.

- I have noticed that changing BIOS settings, drivers etc. does make a difference, but it keeps happening nevertheless.

- did anyone ever get it to run OK -without crashes- on a GeForce 6800(GT) ? (or is the video card and/or Vdriver to blame?)

- Will it run OK on AMD CPU's ? (read something about that too)

- BTW. I already tried to contact Novalogic Tech support, but had no luck.

Thanks all.

[Bluetiereign]

Latest nVidia driver is 66.93 -> and that is not even the forceware betas.

Your 3500 is 512 L2 cache/939 pin ? I run an AMD64 (OC'd), with 1 gig unbuffered ram and a 6800GT - and have no probs - that are hardware related.

Hyperthreading... well... it sorta/kinda still applies -> What is your bus speed & is your ram buffered ? What kind of mb and which bios are you using ?

'High End' systems crash too. C4 is a problematic program.

OOps... don't forget... make sure you have DX9.

[SimFan]

Thanks, that'is encouraging Bluetiereign.
I see that we probably have quite similar setups.
Mine is:
Point-of-view 6800GT with stck nvidia 61.77 drivers@350/1000 (66.93: full screen video related issues).
DX9.0c (XP pro SP2).
Did you have C4 problems with 61.77, which were solved by 66.93 ?
Mobo: S939 - MSI Neo2 Platinum BIOS v1.3. 1GB RAM @ 200Mhz FSB/Dual Channel. Not OC.
RAM Buffered... dunno ?? has that got anything to do with it ??
Nforce 5.10 drivers.
Fast Write enabled.
Not Overclocked !!
2 X SATA HDD.
C4: used different msvcrt.dll files (that which came with C4, Win XP Pro SP2, LOckOn one etc. etc.)
Do you never get lock-ups with C4 ??
Another advice I don't understand: "cleaning" the 'C4 cache folder'... AFAIK there is no "Cache" folder for C4 !?
C4 looks sooo bl*dy nice... as long as it lasts, at highest settings !
Now have to stick to "LockOn". That also crashes on occasion, but not anywhere like C4.
Strange, at first those crashes appeared less often.
I have run Futuremark's 2003 tests so many times... never any problem with DX tests or games.
Strange software... C4 ! I am under the impression this won't be an easy one....
Thx.

[W@tchtower*CFS*]

We had a pilot who had repeat problems with dumps/freezing up and found his ethernet card was on power saver mode, and hybernating after 10 minutes of game play. This was found because the dumps were on a "time" cycle.
I run an older AMD 1.4ghz(dont laugh), I dont think it is a proccessor problem. Some Norton Antivirus software has caused some issues, as well as having the XP firewall an antivirus firewall active at the same time. I hope you find your answer, C4 is a great game.

[SimFan]

w@tchtower, Thx also.
This is a great community !
I least I get some helpfull feedback here !
I thought by upgrading to an state of the art rig would be a joy.
In the past those self-built rigs worked without a lot of problems.
Now all got so complicated (hardware, drivers, OS...).
My old rigs all worked fine and my faster 'puter since recently was a PIII-500.
This ran all sims (with a good Vcard) fine.
Now: no firewall (sp2 or otherwise).
No AV software.
No OS or BIOS powersaving options ON either.
May be either Mobo or Vcard driver related ?
As many people write: probably/maybe C4 is really picky.
I ran ALL 'old school' Novalogic games/sims without any problem:
C1-C3-Gold-AF1-AF3-F16-F22. None EVER crashed as far as I remember.
But with C4, it sure seems NL has written a hardware specific /dependent game, too much of that anyhow.
Waiting for C5... like all of you I guess.
Any help appreciated.

[JJG43]

Dumps to the desktops and system dumps;
With system dumps your C4 novalogic folder will save two files;
1) bin 2) text
delete them when you get the chance

As far as lock ups Yes I did get them too, I had to turn off an option in the settings for ATI 9600 XT video card,can't remember
the exact option tho, been awhile

[SimFan]

Thx again.
Option in Gfx drivers...
Had to do with VSYNC maybe ??
Think I got 'freezes' once I turned off VSYNC.
But Sysdumps... got those all along.
Some days none.
At times every 2" or so.
I am running with 8AA/16AF: will try to turn down on that and report back later.
May also try to disable AA in c4.cfg (is forced by driver anyway).
Even reduce texturing, disable shaders.
Problem is: sometimes I just think it is solved, but it keeps coming back later.

[Bluetiereign]

I use a 764 pin chip, which handles memory differently than the 939. Yours is actually made for the dual channel setup - mine is not. So yes, you should be using buffered memory. I do have the bus speed at 217. I've OC'd the GT to 430.. just for kicks - but I'm using Artic Cooling on mine. Backed it back down though, the performance increase vs. possible long term problems wasn't worth it. I don't set the anti-aliasing (or any of the advanced settings) - and leave them on 'application controlled'. In addition, despite this systems specs - Nova's 'sniffing' program will not allow me to run at 1600x1200. If I want to do that, I have to manually change the config file. This doesn't do me any good though... the program just crashes after a few seconds or minutes into a game.. I've just settled for 1024x768 and it plays fine. I find it odd because Joint Operations lets me run everything on High at 1600x1200 - and I have no problems or lag that are video related.

The newer cards present new problems - and are fixed with each driver release. To actually get thru the new 3DMark test, I have to use the forceware beta drivers - but they are trouble 'ingame' - rendering residual or extraneous poly's that have no business appearing.

Maybe settle for a lower pixel setting, let the application handle the settings and see what you get. Otherwise - welcome to the quirky world of the unsupported (except for a few diehards) C4 community.

[SimFan]

Bluetiereign, that too is very valuable information for us ! Thx.
So, if I understand correctly, it seems C4 -and 6800GT - @ 1600X1200 won't work !?? Period. If that is so, that would mean all my efforts, and I can assure all of you I tried!, were doomed to fail.
Also trying to run at the highest possible driver settings won't do me any good either I reckon.
The C4 'sniffer', as you call it, also refused settings above 1024X768 and, I too had to change the c4.cfg file for this to work.
Most of the time the game does crash also (some days are 'blessed' though).
Lower pixel setting stuff... that's my problem... what and how to set each c4.cfg parm correctly. What do those mean/or how to be set, what possible values will do what?...
C4 sure seem to have been abandoned by NL.
Saying bad things won't help much, but my experiences with NL support in the past were... not perfect to say the least.
I was one of their best customers though.
I will try to get it to work at lower settings, but then, why did we invest all that money in state-of-the-art systems ?
What may be of help to you: 3dmark03/05: didn't work for me until I stopped OC my PC and Vcard.
Disabling "AGP Fast write" does help, but makes one lose between 15-30% CPU power for a.o. video work (CPU strain increases-check 3dmark, that proves it).
Now, as we all know, all systems are different, so this may be of no help to others.
:)

[Bluetiereign]

Originally posted by SimFan
what and how to set each c4.cfg parm correctly. What do those mean/or how to be set, what possible values will do what?...

I set them all on the highest settings that the C4 Setup gives me when the setup program runs. Just delete the C4.cfg file and start C4. The program will run.

[SimFan]

Thx Admin.
I never tried playing at lower res. Actually the 6800GT Vcard
(and 20" TFT) was all about running at 16X12.
Now IMHO C4 is worth it.
Will try it the way you say.
Will take some time to be sure it is really solved though.
But I will report back.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Note: the Comanche series is special to me.
"Comanche" got me interested in PC gaming.
Since then I have become a 'hardcore' simmer (the kind that tries to enjoy F4 and LockOn).
But I still keep coming back to the Novalogic gameplay = fun formula.
There is a lot to be learned from dedicated companies
creating the most difficult games to ever develop (like LockOn/F4).
But... only Novalogic ever made flightsims/games true fun.
:D

[SimFan]

Thanks All !!!!!!!
Solved by you.
Was the 1600X1200 issue indeed.
Followed the advice to the letter.
After many, many weeks C4 works on my new rig !!!!
The only problem is that it, of course, looks way... different.
But most important... it does work again !
BTW, this advice was nowhere else to be found.
I should have figured it out myself (having customized so
many games & sims), but did'nt.
This issue should be put up somewhere to help others.
Now that C4 can be had very cheap, many (young) people with high end PC's will try to run it @ higher res and fail.
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Now ... waiting in vain for C5 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[SKIPPY *CFS*]

I called NovaLogic they told me that it is done and over with the Comanche series ever since the Comanche project was cancelled there isnt any point in continuation. They may make flight sims that could involve the Comanche, Apache etc. But as far as a Comanche 5 or Comanche Plat. its nix.

[W@tchtower*CFS*]

This issue should be put up somewhere to help others.

SimFan, It doesnt get any better than this place here. All vet pilots refer newbies to this site, it is the one place to search the archives to try to find answers(or ask). Glad you got it working!
cya in the skies!

[SimFan]

Yes, thx Checkpointdelta, feels great to have it back .
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Oh, well, C5 was probably never going to happen, even if the Comanche project wouldn't have been cancelled.
The Comanche series is what made Novalogic.
However, as we know, they opted for the only sure way to survive in a FPS driven marketplace. I can't blame them for that.
Also, the way the Comanche series was going, I guess NL would have left out the front "cockpit view" as well in C5.
The days of C3(-Gold) are over.