Invisible C4, Need a Fix

[=AirAvenger=]

Being Invisible in Comanche 4 is a real drag sometimes. It Happens to us all at one time or another. Most people have been Ladies and Gentlemen concerning the Invis Issue during play. But getting to the point...

This post is meant for anyone with Ideas or have Noticed anything that may show a pattern for being Invis. Also anyone with code experience that may have any ideas.

I have, as well as a few others, have looked into fixing the C4 Invis Issue. When I have an idea I'll try and check into it, but I'm running out of ideas on where to look inside the C4 game structure. People posting or sending me an email or sending me a PM may give me a fresh idea as to where to look, or how to look into fixing the Invis Issue.

I'm calling on anyone no matter how dumb/smart your idea may be.

Thanx,

[SKIPPY *CFS*]

I cant think of much I put a call to Nova Logic for ya we will see what they have in anything to offer.....

[kill_me{FWD}]

hey Avenger,

did not spent time in how computer games are working - im only using them. so please sorry for my dumb questions. here they are:
i assume, the positioning data of all players are transmitted by the server to all clients? is the position of the invisible player be transmitted also - or not?
if not, then are the clients giving any feedback about the positioning data they recieved?
if yes, then if the client already has the information why he doesnt give the right output to video, sound and radar?
generally, can the c4.exe be modified that the server sends the positions of each player; all clients got then to send a recieve receipt? maybe every minute or so.

if the prob is server side then im sure you'll fix it soon. if the prob is client side then maybe the recieve receipt is a good start, the server then can send an information to the player that he's invis and stopps counting until the player fixed being invis.

again sorry Avenger, but i do not know anything about how the c4 code works.

[=AirAvenger=]

Hey,, Just keep the ideas coming even if you don't know any code. You never know when 4-5 people could have a little idea and it could turn into a big idea to fix something.

[MasterX(BKC)]

Avenger, try relocating the comanche entries in the defs to totally different id numbers and tell the game to use the new numbers rather than oldies, and remove old entries, i think invisibility is the game cant or messes up assigning a def # to the user and without a assigned #it would be "null" and have no mesh or data,
hence invisible and silent,

if the above is not applicable or is false,
try assigning a 3di to the null entry and see if invisibility still happens.....it shouldn't after this, but may have bad side effects beings i think some marker items use null for their phisical definition

[GarretJax]

Hey Avenger.........dont know if this makes any difference but something I have noticed is if theres an Invisible pilot on each side at any given time during the game...they can see each other even though the rest cant see them.......:dance:

[W@tchtower*CFS*]

Yep, Garret, it seems to me the pilot that is invisi is visable to the pilot that killed him and got him stuck, most of the time. Something changes in between getting killed and being stuck and/or typing ~resetgames.

[kill_me{FWD}]

by the way
Avenger, would it be possible to have a dedicated server. you know, like in BattleField series or so, that is controllable via remote. the gui is no big help in conjunction with current remotesoftware

[=AirAvenger=]

MasterX(BKC)
Relocating the comanche entries in the defs..

Now there is a Project to try. 3di and game graphic are very tuff for me, but I'll look into that.
__

GarretJax
Invisible pilot on each side at any given time during the game they can see each other..

That is a puzzle. I've noticed that too and there could be some kind of INVIS answer from that.
__

kill_me{FWD}
C4 controllable via remote..

Not that I'm aware of. I've never ever tried or attempted it. The Host Manager I'm still working on may be some what accessible to help with this.
__

Here is a wild thought I also had on INVIS is this:
All of the players in game are in a section of memory and that memory section refreshes to a new section of memory and some of the data does not get there completely.

[WiperSix]

i guess I'm just statig the obvious, but if it was a server side issue then the invis would appear to everyone. my guess is that the client c4 game (the person who has an invis opponent) has somehow not received the info that the invis pilot corrresponds to an active object. its curious that the ammo fired by the invis object is visible though. I have often thought that maybe a patch could be made on the client game so that all comanches flying are visible, but I don't know what happens when each life is destroyed (do those comanches just become invis ?). At any rate, a server side solution would really be ideal because if, for example, you created a patch that everyone could install to their game, all a cheating person would have to do is disable that patch or figure out how it worked to become invis at will. On a separate issue, I noticed from some of the game code that it even has a built in setting for max fire rate, but somehow that is disabled ? It would be nice to fix: 1) invis , 2) 8h, and 3) firerate, as well as have the server provide visual real time ping rate and possibly ping limits . Its been 3 years (?), though, and noone seems to have the skill to do these things.

[=AirAvenger=]

Well I know Bane has looked into the INVIS issue and he also has looked into the code as much as he can, which is more than myself. I know he was saying that many things are just disabled or were not totally working in the code. I wonder if the pre-release type versions had this problem.

I have noticed tons of stuff referenced in the code, but like max fire rate, etc.. it's all disabled some how. So Add-On programs/patches are the way to go for now to try to get things to work.

Does game code ever become public domain after xx many years? I wonder what it would take for Nova to give it to us? It might be a huge PR thing for Nova if they gave it to us. Are there any Software Attorneys in the C4 community that could arrange this?

On a side note concerning the In Game Timer(MTC Multiplayer Timer Clock). I know that at 1 time it functioned for one of the versions. It may have been a pre-release version. I still keep trying to get it to work on it's own. But until then I just keep on using the In Game Timer Option in the Player-Manager.

Thanx for the ideas.. keep em coming..

[XO JESTER_DIE]

good to c some ppl still fighting to get this game fixed...we had this problem when it first came out... and nova said so sad to bad basicly to all of our requests for the code to be fixed...so good luck with it..and the game code as far as i know is copyrighted for a long long time ..they have been fighting for years on some of the code/ games that have become obsolete on the net for many moons..i cant remember the name of the site but all they do is store/share abandoned software they still havecourt battles waging on for stuff that is over 10 years out of production.... i think the site is abandeonedware.com or something like that

cya

THE JESTER <DIE>

[WiperSix2004]

I think its safe to say that they will never, ever release the code. Besides the fact that its simply not in their interest, they could very well have proprietary agreements with some of the staff, investors, and shareholders, not to mention vendors like 3di that provided vital code for the thing to work, most likely under some very exacting agreement.

There's just too much money to be made (or lost) in gaming for any of these cats to start making their own investments (even losing ones) open source, and since they don't own all the code to begin with , it would be really hard to for me to believe that they would even consider it.

but, hey, maybe if someone offered them 10 or 20 thousand US they might at least consider responding to your email hehe (even if the answer was no)

[HotShotFWP]

Hi everybody, good to see some of you I havent seen for a good while.:1drink.gif:

Avenger, here's some observations of mine related to this invis matter:

1) A player mostly always comes back invis to someone after getting stuck and using "~resetgames."

2) Sometimes (but not as frequent as what I mentioned in #1) a player respawns invis after the first death of a game.

There may be different issues we have to deal with as well, now. For instance, cheating. Recently in C4, I've seen some player named Spirit who can go invis at will. This guy can even fly under the ground and stuff. he can also give himself 1000 stingers or 999, and he can make it so one can shoot like crazy and not kill him as he sits still. He says it's a code he types in, or something like that. I call it a cheat. LOL

I've also seen other players fly under the ground and take many stingers while standding still, or maybe it's Spirit with a different name. Also, I've encountered some players with a killer Cannon. I mean with full health youre dead in 2 seconds. Reminds me of that cannon macro Copenhagan used to use. Are cannons like that acceptable, now?

Anyway, my point is if it's possible to go invis at will, that cheat or code is going to spread, and even if you all fix the invis problem we know about, here is a new invis problem we face. I may just have to find Reaper (I really miss him) and join him in another game to frequent in place of our beloved C4. But, I'll still, play C4, and I'm not saying that the things I mentioned above happens so much that the game is anarchy, now. But, it used to seem more fun to play.

I still like C4, and it's good to see you all still around!

HotShotFWP

[=AirAvenger=]

Originally posted by HotShotFWP



A player named Spirit who can go invis at will.

Well Spirit send me an e-mail lets chat. Here's your big chance for the spot light if we can get INVIS fixed in C4.
__


This guy can even fly under the ground and stuff. he can also give himself 1000 stingers.

I can duplicate this, it's almost impossible to stop someone from doing this. There is also prolly a few ways of doing this.
__

Not kill him as he sits still.
Sounds more and more like a trainer/cheat program.
__



I've encountered some players with a killer Cannon. I mean with full health youre dead in 2 seconds. Reminds me of that cannon macro Copenhagan used to use. Are cannons like that acceptable, now?

Rapid Cannons/Gunz/Cannon Macro/etc.. This is easily duplicated from a stock keyboard/mouse setup built ingame. Pressing 1 while firing cannons gives Rapid Cannons. There are many with Rapid Cannons that are not a Cannon Macro. A Cannon Macro is usually programmed into a Joystick Profile. As far as Rapid Cannons being acceptable I'm sure each Squad has their own Policy on the issue. As far as how fast a pilots cannons are I've seen 2seconds, 10seconds, 1min30seconds.
__


My point is if it's possible to go invis at will, that cheat or code is going to spread, and even if you all fix the invis problem we know about, here is a new invis problem we face.

True, but you can always Punt a cheater.
Since I'm on the C4 Game Enhancement Team I have looked into several security/cheat holes in C4 but I really try to effort my time to finding fixes, explore new game types, create the Player-Manager, and other positive things for C4.

it's an Age Old Story::

Game - Player - Challenging - Fun
or
Game - Player - Cheat - Fun

Thanx for the input...

[GarretJax]

Hey.......a question please:dance:

Little off topic:(

Does anyone know if theres a "perfect environment".....that exists where invisibilty is less prevelent or not a problem..................ie: max 8 players, no fire macros

seems there wasnt a problem way back when.....:1drink.gif: ....I needed that:bouncing:

Someone once said in these forums that we've created our own monster...is this the case?..or is invis something in(or lacking) in the game codes as you gentleman are suggesting!

Im just a curious fan:spin:

[Inso «Ð*§*§»]

:joystick.gif:

[=AirAvenger=]

Seems Invis has a double whammy now.

Invis is something lacking in the game codes, and it seems we have reports of a cheat that can turn invis at will.

Is there any game that does not have cheats??
Solitare LOL......

Single Player and or maybe Co-op games can be fun and might offer a better enviroment for some people.

Has anyone heard of being Invis during a SP or Co-op???
Has anyone heard of being Invis during a LAN game??

[FalconSoN]

Would it be possicle to make some form of a mod or patch to eliminate the invisiblity.

[Reaper]

More than 4 years with players making an effort to make the game as fair as they can, Hats off to you guys.

At some point players either come to live with the game issues and cheats when playing multi player or they choose to play another game type or game till you get feeling the same way about that 1.

Or you look for your fun else where. As a side note After seeing this game engine used for a third time I can tell you this, The issues go on. Joint Ops has problems of it's own. At least C4 is small enough you know the other players and can say hey bs abit and have some fun besides playing.

Hot give me a holler if you want to play some Joint Ops coop.

[WiperSix2004]

hey hotshot hows it goin

dont know about the 1000 stinger cheat, havent seen that. however, I do know that there was one server that had a trainer program on it. the server had to have the trainer on it for the player to use it, thats the only unlimited ammo trainer prog I know about.

the gun macro is only used by a few and not allowed in virtually all squad matches.

the "sitting" is not actually a cheat, if you sit still in the open, at 5 to 10 feet agl, the ground heats up and the stingers, if fired from the side will hit the ground, just as if they followed flares. this can be coutered by flying up higher and the stingers fired from 50 to 100 feet up will start to take out the target. the individual sitting can't move or the effect goes away immediately.


thats all i know, for what its worth. hope to see you flying hotshot


wiper / aka nakulak

[HotShotFWP]

Hiya Reaper and WiperSix: :dance:

Reaper, I will definitely give you a holler! I have to get the game first and play a bit to be ready for online play. Hopefully, I'll have it by tomorrow. Hey man, it's so Kool to hear from you!!!

Hi WiperSix, long time no see guy! LOL

I guess I used wrong diction in my post above. I meant to convey
"hover" not "sit" as I wrote concerning that player called Spirit. I dont think this is the trick LRS once told me about involving the use of flares. If you see Spirit around, ask him to show you the invincible thing he does, and according to him he can make himself
get 999 stingers. Still, there may be truth to what you suspect about this sitting still and not dieing deal.

I've always been hesitant about saying "cheat" because all the C4 Vets used to say: there are no cheats for C4. However, after seeing Spirit demonstrate invincibility and seeing him go invis at will, I'll have to beg to differ with that ole saying: "there's no cheats for C4." Yet, I still like the game and will very likely always play.

I hope to see you around, too, man.:)

Audios amigos!

HotShotFWP

[WiperSix2004]

hey hotshot,

I would be interested in knowing what server you were on when this spirit guy showed up.

If you don't mind emailing me I'd appreciate it

thx


nakulak@comcast.net

[HotShotFWP]

Hey Wiper:

I sent you an email.

[Bluetiereign]

I can be invisible whenever I want to. If you don't believe me, just go to the servers. I bet you won't see me.

:freak3:

[W@tchtower*CFS*]

LMAO!!!!!Im invis there right now too!!!!!!:lol4:

oh, wait, we need an invisi Smiley...here it is:

[Animal]

Well I have seen this disapearing happen in front of me it is a glitch (that is what he/ she called it) I did ask to see how it was done. But I got no response.

[TerrorX]

Guys I hate to tell you this,,, or maybe not,,, I play BF1942. Delta Force Black Hawk Down, Joint Operations, Star Wars Battlefront, & Comanche 4. I am proud to tell you that out of all those game C4 has the least amount of cheats or glitches. In my opinion, lag causes most of it. In Joint Operations I was running over a suspended bring and got a CI and just fell through the bridge.
In Battlefield 1942 the Desert Combat Mod, ever since it came our during Operation Iraqi Freedom (You Know the war) there has been a glitch in one of the maps that none of the updates have fixed yet. In the map called Basarahs Edge at the second flag near the Coalition base You can jump into the wall and blast anyone going for the flag. in that map if a vehicle runs into you at a certain place here this other wall it will push you into the wall. There are 2 other glitches in this map. In Delta Force Black Hawk Down there is a cheat known as XRay that makes you run through walls. in Star Wars Battle Front there are Code Cheats you can type in. So what we have invis glitches, Efam bug, that really aint that bad. I like playing all these games it is a break from the real world. TV just offends me. Pro sports has become a joke. So little glitches aren't that bad.

I think the thing we need to deal with most in this game is our own attitudes towards each other. That will be one of the only things that can keep this game alive.

That and a non intrusive program to force 3h.

I hope everyone has a very happy Holiday Season.

Keep smiling life aint that bad.

That is my ideas on this thang.

Hasta,,,

[WiperSix2004]

the flying into ground/going invis could easily be cabling. but the 1000 stingers could easily be a known trainer installed and running on the server. If anyone sees spirit, ask him to go into another server and show them the 1000 stingers, or more than likely the server he's on is running the trainer.

[Santa AkA SoDam]

:dance:
Hi guys, i have noticed that invis happens for the 1st person who gets killed in the game when it starts, and the only person that can see him/her is the person that made the killing! this all of us know already!

This is also true for a player who joins a game half way through and dosen't kill anyone, so it seems to happen when you die for the first time in a game weather you start from the begining or half way through you ither get stuck (and come back invis) (including if you have done a ~resetgames) or you dont get stuck you still respaun invis

It is really odd that the person who made the 1st killing can still see the invis player, maybe this is a place to start looking?

I hope this helps.

[=AirAvenger=]

You can go into any server with 1000 stingers. It's a cheat on the client side.

[JJG43]

When I was in the 1Cav the leader at that time was Goblin, he
stated at the time that he fixed the invis bug ( 1.5 C4). Does
anyone know off hand what PC language C4 iswritten in?? I can't remember myself.What got him off the game was he tried to fix the no-count bug but gave up, than lost interest for the game completely and moved on to something else.( BHD)

[kill_me{FWD}]

this spirit can fly under the ground on 'come and get it',
obviously he also speaks spanish beside of english.

i also noticed that he disapeared, so he either rejoined or 'resetgames'.


as i said before in this thread, im not very familar with the side of code of games. but i'd think that he either modified the client side maps or the collision detection isnt working. maybe this is the same - dont know.

hope this helps the code junkies to find out what this is.

[=AirAvenger=]

It's not modified client side maps. The maps are downloaded from the server by all players joining the game. If you take all of the stock maps out of your C4 you still can join a server. But there are other files related to the map like bin files. These mostly contain info on waypoints/waypoint names. But thanx for the ideas. I know my grey matter is greyyer than ever lately.

[Bluetiereign]

I really want to stay out of this. Its been well over a year, maybe 2, since I've done any coding for C4 - and that was under some very intensive, step-by-step tutoring. I'd rather make models for the game.

A couple of things I remember from this: 1. If you fix a cheat - it could be countered. 2. If you fix a 'glitch' - someone could just 'rebuild' it.

If you want to just have fun - without people glitching/cheating, like you are mentioning here... why not just make an addon to 'capture' the ip of the player and punt/ban them - and resume the gaming. But you should be absolutely sure you are punting/banning a 'cheater' ( and not some poor kid with a poor connection ) And exactly how do you go about proving this - unless they are boasting of their accomplishment ?

I prefer to not go into much here - the mere mention of the possibility of cheats - can send even honest people on a quest to find one.

[=AirAvenger=]

A couple of things I remember from this: 1. If you fix a cheat - it could be countered. 2. If you fix a 'glitch' - someone could just 'rebuild' it.

100% agree on that.
Well I know I don't have the time or energy to build security patches for 4-5 year old game. And After you patched it, you would just have to patch it again in a month or so. It would be easier to build your own game. Monitoring your own server is the best.


Why not just make an addon to 'capture' the ip of the player and punt/ban them. But you should be absolutely sure you are punting/banning a 'cheater' (and not some poor kid with a poor connection). And exactly how do you go about proving this - unless they are boasting of their accomplishment ?


No addon needed. Using Punt/Ban commands in game seems to work fine.


I prefer to not go into much here - the mere mention of the possibility of cheats - can send even honest people on a quest to find one.

But yes let's try to stay more focused on info to fix Game Glitch INVIS and not make this a cheater thread.

[TerrorX]

I have been doing some reading on this matter as of late mainly because I tried to use one of these.

In other games, they use a remote or server control panel.

The one CFS made was kewl but,,, I don't believe it is good for that.

Delta Force has a Control Panel however it causes major problems in the game and some people can't join.

BF1942 has a very good control panal that shows the IP address and any fluctuations in the players ping. It has Punk Buster installed which we don't have.

However they both look almost the same.

Maybe someone could come up with something similar.

With the BHD control panel you can use different mods like Argus which is the BHD version of AE.

This is just an idea. Spank me if this is out of line.

[=AirAvenger=]

The one CFS made was kewl but,,, I don't believe it is good for that.

FYI just so you all know::

Well if you are reffering to 8H-AP, *CFS* did not build it. I built it and *CFS* does not have any claim to it. Yes I am on *CFS* but I keep C4GET and *CFS* things seperate to a point. I am also a server for *CFS* and have been allowed to use their Name Server for testing and running programs like 8H-AP. 8H-AP is part of a C4GET-Host-Manager that I am still building and testing along with ''50 million'' other projects that I am also trying to accomplish. LOL.

Yes, you are right, the Host-Manager w/8H-AP does not go into IP addies and pings. Wow I really wish I knew that much about code. At present time it only allows the adjusting of several Host Options with out pulling down the server to change them (on the fly and takes effect at next game). I have built in a 8H-AP section in the Host-Manager. I still have several bugs to fix thru out the Host-Manager and may try to release a DownSized version with less options but will include 8H-AP.

Projects to make C4 FuNnER:
Some of the projects I dig into along with the C4 Game Enhancement Team and a few others that have some code smarts:
1. INVIS
2. Game Types, recently got S&D, A&D to work, still testing
before I release anything about it. Flag Games may never happen.
3. Scoring
4. Getting the InGame Timer to work without the Player-Manager.
5. New Comanche Skins
6. Terrain & Sky Pack
7. Night Vision for Night Maps.
8. Maps
9. C4GET-Host-Manager
10. There's more but I'll stop there.

hmm my code score... lol

''50 million'' projects vs
1 release of C4GET-Player-Managerv20 w/InGame Timer

A C4 Control Panel would be wayy kewlll... hmmmm..

[vesh fey]

OK I may be a dork or something, But when I got the game 2 yrs ago (eg 2002-2003), I only noticed tha the people running XP went Invis, most of the time, What if the TCP/IP stack has a flaw in it that doesent allow for the client to sync. with the server. If the client cant sync, then that person is sending the telemetry at the wrong time. It may sound dumb, but you can do the same thing on a TCP/IP network, known as spoofing. let me know if that helps.

[TerrorX]

Vesh Fey, Stack overflow makes sense, however I believe after a few minutes of this the server would treat this as cabling and drop the client causing a sysdump.

I have been playing other games and what they do in some of the servers is, if someone stays above a certain ping level they get punted.

~NPC~ has adopted this practice in games such as DF BHD & BF1942.

What we practice and is accepted in BHD is if someone complains of seeing a certain player run through walls, disappear into the ground when they laydown, or use glitches in the map to their advantage, they get warned then punted.

~NPC~ has also noticed that imperfections in custom maps can cause problems for all maps on a server running custom maps. Meaning imperfections in the code for maps, say - alignment of tunnels or buildings turned on their side can cause problems in the coding for all maps in that server. ~NPC~ has seen this in our own server. We have dedicated members to seeking these imperfections out, note them, and fix them. If it can't be fixed then the map is scrapped.

I hope this is helpful. I hope everyone has a happy new year.

Hasta mi amogos,

I'm Outy,

TerrorX

[WiperSix2004]

the technology is out of scope for me, but I think c4 uses udp (not tcp), which is more or less an asynchronous variety of ip protocol (if i understand it correctly ?). I was thinking that the reason for the invis had only to do with the clients.

this is my reasoning:
premises:
clientx, y and z are playing with an invis player I
1) I may only be invis to clientx, buy clienty, and clientz can see him
2) even though clientx can't see I, his C4 game knows where he is, he is just not visible to the naked eye (his comanche 3d object is not being redrawn), as evidenced by the fact that when I fires weapons they are generated form a distinct moving location

conclusions
1) the server is updating the positions and activity of all live objects, visible and invisible (or not, see case B)
2) since clientx, y, and z are using the same exact game code, the only difference has been some part of information that they did not receive regarding the state of I

possible causes/comments:
Case A

-clientx did not receive a packet that said that client I respawned, therefore clientx is either redrawing the blown up helicopter where it last was, or cannot redraw the helicopter at its current location because there is some piece of information missing (needs a new object ID value ? in order to create the new comanche ?)

-during ci's, restartgames, and player's getting stuck there is some piece of information that involves the state of each player that, when not recieved by a client, results in invisibility only to that client

repair: write some routing that checks that all 16 choppers on clientx (actually on every client's) machine are visible and being redrawn

Case B

-clientx did not receive a packet that said that client I respawned, and therefore client I's chopper actually does not exist on clientx's computer. what clientx sees is the missles being fired, but from a point in space where they start to be drawn, not from an invisible chopper - from a nonexistant one ! why ? cause clientx did not get the tidbit of information that client I got destroyed, and cannot draw the new chopper it doesnt know exists

repair: unknown. however, since a resetgames puts things right, it seems like someone could write a shorter version of resetgames that does not involve re downloading the map, but just retrieving from server the information that clientx needs. for example, suppose clientx had a TSR running in memory that checked to see when a missle was fired, if there was a chopper within 15 meters of it, and if not, to either resetgames or do the new shortreset.

anyway, just some ideas to chew over. It may be that someone like spirit can cable and go invis, or send a malformed packet and do it. but the server is sending out the information on the positions of all the ordinance being fired on a regular basis, so it seems reasonable that either a server side fix or a clientx side fix is not out of the realm of possibility, no matter whether client I is a cheater or just went invis.

[=AirAvenger=]

Wow some possible good ideas there. Is there any relationship to someone being INVIS and their previous death message not showing for the person that can not see the invis player?

Another thought would be: C4 has 2 basic skins that are used for online multiplayer red team / blue team, green, desert. A interesting test would be to have a server and with everyone in the server having only 1 skin available(prolly defintition file,3di file).
I know I've seen players on the same team as me that are INVIS also. But maybe the INVI player has a NULL ID or Skin. The player dies and gets a skin, but it's the wrong team skin, so that player get the next skin, but it's at the end of the list so that player gets a null skin.

I'll also experiment with a 5-8sec respawn timer in the days ahead and see what that does about INVIS. It may help in packets getting lost because of respawning to fast and define a players death slower(better).

[MasterX(BKC)]

If this is what is happening it would be pretty easy to prove, in a temporary def assign the NULL ID a mesh(e.g. Hummer) then start playing online, it a player is invis he should appear as a Hummer if thats what you made its mesh.
then we may be able to asign map markers to a new null object ID so they dont use the old ID with a mesh....

-X

[WiperSix2004]

one thing I didn't really hit on was this: if a guy is cabling, its seems as though because his position is unknown, the server either doesn't send his location, or sends out something (unknown) for his location (if someone created a server object manager/explorer this could be determined in real time). its interesting to note that, for instance, sometimes when I have a ci I wake up dead. So in that case the loss of connection didn't result in my not being killed, whereas when someone cables they disappear and the stingers go right thru them. So in the case of someone cabling, the server treats the connection differently somehow than it does for a CI. I find this very interesting, and investigating what happens during cabling might be very productive towards fixing whatever is being sent, or not being sent, to the server that determines the position and visibility of the player.

[=AirAvenger=]

Maybe the difference between cabling and a CI is that, only the clients downstream is interupted while cabling vs. while in a CI both UP/Down stream would be interupted?? OR??


::
7-8sec respawn timer is what I'm testin in the server for now,, I'll see how that goes before I attempt the testing of a Hummer/Null skin.


UPDATE:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
7-8sec respawn timer.. I ran a TDM public server with custom maps for 7hrs+ with only 1 reported/UNconfirmed INVIS. Wow it looks very promising so far. But Still needs more testing. If this is a fix or a 99% fix for INVIS it will be in the Host-Mgr.
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[vesh fey]

Congrats Avenger. 99% is a very good chance to having a fix, let me know when the new player manager is out?

[=AirAvenger=]

Well Thanx for the ""Congrats""..
''7-8sec respawn timer.. I ran a TDM public server with custom maps for 7hrs+ with only 1 reported/UNconfirmed INVIS. ''

But like I said it looks very promising. BUT Needs more testing...
Notes:
With a 7-8sec respawn timer, it appears that a player will have to hit the ground and be Good & dead before they can respawn. Reports of being stuck were still present, but seemed less than usual(not sure).

Without a Respawn timer, Maybe the overlap between falling to the ground and respawning has something to do with being invis.(not sure) This could be a graphics issue or a connection packet issue or both.(not sure)
When you die your Comanche skin is exchanged for a wrecked skin with no flight controls. If you imediately spawn before the packets are sent saying that you are alive again, then you are alive with flight controls but keep your last skin which was the wrecked skin, but a wrecked skin is not available for a live player with flight controls so you are skinless, thus invis. (not sure)

[vesh fey]

Makes sense, If you need me to I will help with the testing as would my squad <CoN> just let us know.

[WiperSix2004]

I can't imagine anyone would mind trading 8 sec for not having to deal with most of the invis issues. coolio, keep up the good work avenger !

[GarretJax]

Hey Avenger :waving.gif: ..... was that the test server we played our match in last night??..........If so I would like to report "0" invis's from the IFS's standpoint for the 3 games played :099.gif: :dance:

[=AirAvenger=]

rgr that Garret,
Yup We had the Respawn Timer running, all of the warm up games were also invis free.

But the INVIS score for the day was 1 confirmed invis and 1 unconfirmed invis in about 5 hrs of serving.

unconfirmed invis is more than likely long passive/popup shots.
While it appears that it is not a 100% fix it does appear to help against invis greatly, so far.

So a running tally so far is:
12hrs
3 reported or questioned invis
1 confirmed invis(SeaSide map)
2 unconfirmed invis

[W@tchtower*CFS*]

Is the spawn-delay making any difference on getting "stuck" in the game? I know a lot of the invisi issues revolve around getting stuck and having to ~resetgames, the player usually comes back invisi to someone...

[=AirAvenger=]

The Respawn Timer (could) be helping the stuck issue. But I can not really tell for sure. And I (could) be wrong. I haven't paid alot of attention to reports of being stuck in the past or present. Many times people get stuck and say nothing and reset.
On the other hand, While seeing an Invis player everyone is pretty good about letting everyone in the server know that someone is Invis.

[Santa AkA SoDam]

:LolLolLolLol:

Hi m8 when i played in your test server i did not get stuck once (or twice) as far as i could see the delay timer is a gret sucess in solving manny isues with the game and i would be happy to trade 8 secs anyday!!
I have a feeling that this time could be shortend, because the data packet loss from player to server should = the ping time the player has to the server give it a + 2 second delay and that should sufice!!

well worth a test with 2/3 seconds put in in stead!!

Keep up the GREAT WORK BUDDY!!
:cooldude:

[HotShotFWP]

We're here and it's like seeing history being made. If this invis issue is fixed, that's going to be great! Man, that was the biggest pain in this game.

Now if we can fix this issue of people killing me all the time, like, So Dam, well, that would be great too. LOL I dont know what's up, but lately, I've been getting my butt whipped by everybody on C4.

Thanks for your work on this deal (fixing the invis issue) Avenger. Cya all around.

Hot

[=AirAvenger=]

Very Possible a shorter timer could work just as good..
My first thought is to make everyone have to hit the ground before they can respawn.
I'm going to test more on the 7-8 sec Respawn Timer before I try shorter Time. Need more of a track record for 7-8 secs. Then compare it to a shorter time.

[Santa AkA SoDam]

:cool097.gif: rgr buddy

GOOD JOB!!
:099.gif: :yelclap.gif: :2ar15smilie:

[=AirAvenger=]

So a running tally so far is:
16hrs - 3 different days
3 reported or questioned invis
ONLY 2 confirmed invis
2 unconfirmed invis

I do have thoughts of bumping it up to a full 10 secs to try for 100% No Invis. After all that is what we are trying for. But let's see how the 8secs work for a bit.

Side notes:
At present it is set for 8secs. But by the time you see the countdown it could be 7secs or even less. The countdown is located at the top middle of your screen.
While you are in your countdown you can press 'R' to see death messages, etc,,.
________
Thank God, Thank CPD for a great forum and a new look, as well as Thanx to everyone that have posted,e-mailed,PM'ed me ideas on INVIS. All of my grey matter was very stuck with no ideas at all, as I said in my 1st post. So gettin many of us involved in the thought process has sparked ideas to get to this point of a 99% Invis Fix.

[W@tchtower*CFS*]

Ok. Flew 4 maps tonight with the Spawn-delay,I almost always get stuck the first death. Did NOT get stuck tonight. Acted like I was going to get stuck, but the respawn timer kicked in and game resumed as normal and never was invisi(or anyone else). We turned off the spawn-delay in the host manager half way through a map, and immediately had an invisi the next map in rotation....so you are on target for a fix Avenger...... :099.gif:

[WiperSix2004]

I changed the following settings in c4.cfg
startdelay=8
timeout=8

I'm hoping that this is the same thing ??

[=AirAvenger=]

The start delay is 0-1-2-3 min to start game.
The Timeout is the Respawn Timer. I have never tried adjusting the Timeout in the cfg file. Alot of things will not work by changing the cfg file thats why I built the Host-Mgr.
Let us know if adjusting the cfg file works.

[JJG43]

Humm an edit change in the client side of C4,instead of having a server edit
for C4. Unless I miss my guess, anyone could make that edit :puzzled:

[=AirAvenger=]

Well as near as I can tell this is a server setting only. The server dictates the Timeout/Respawn Timer for everyone.

[WiperSix2004]

well, appararently v2 resets the timeout to 0 along with the other cfg settings.

[vesh fey]

Ok this is off topic, but How do you server 1.1.20? I tried the config change and it works, but I would like to change the ver of the server. how can I do it?

[W@tchtower*CFS*]

If you have upgraded your C4 to ver2, then you automatically host version 2 as long as you start the game with the C4v2.exe.... Some delete the V.15 exe when they install v2, some leave both....I do know that Avengers C4UD will be for those that use V2, so it would be wise to upgrade to V2 if you havent already.(Available here at CPD in the Download section)

[WiperSix2004]

oooooooooops I lied. I have 3 or 4 versions of v2 and it seems I was using the wrong version (DOH !!) whichever one I'm using now accepts the koth, 4 team, and also the timeout setting ( I'm guessing it was the last one you guys posted, I think by bane ??) Anyway, I'm now testing the thing at 8 secs, and I'll let you know if that helps with the invis. I'll play with the time and get back to you when its optimal. (did you guys hex a crack version in there somewhere ? if so, what's the offset, and I'll check to see which ver it is)

thx

[=AirAvenger=]

You'll have to ask Bane.. As far as I know just the game types/NoCd were opened up.

[Reaper]

There were 3 fixed exes for c4. The original one for version 1.5, Then Inso put one out for version 2 when auto explode was being tested for version 2, Then Bane put out another one for version 2 when he put out the gametype utility for KOTH.

Hope that helps.

[vesh fey]

So far I found that 4 sec timeout works fine, but that was only 10 player for an hour and a half, I just think that the client needs time to resend the data, to the server, and that 2 sec would even work. so long as the ping isnt 2500ms. but those are my thoughts

[=AirAvenger=]

Vesh Fey, Thanx for the Input.
It seems a shorter TimeOut/Respawn Timer does work. I've been using 3-4 secs and still a 99% INVIS Fix. Any others have any input?

[WiperSix2004]

We've been using the "timeout" config setting in matches with great success. so far, 8 sec worked, and 6 sec worked. gonna try 4 sec next time. 6 sec seems better than 8 sec - 8 sec, with 12 players on fast paced map seemed to lag up map and cause heavy processing - I wonder if the timeout uses old style timers instead of interrupts and bogs down processor ? at anyrate, this is just subjective, so could be mistaken. After a couple of matches with 4 I'll report back, but this seems to be a great success !! good work !!

[=AirAvenger=]

Glad to hear it's working..... I've made some adjustments to the C4GET-Host-Mgr that allow 0,3,4,5,6,7,8,9 for TimeOut Options. What machines/OS bog when TimeOut is used. Maybe newer or bigger Processors can handle it better?
1. PIII 1000-WinXP bogs noticeably
2. PIII 1000(overclocked)-WinXP can barely tell if it bogs at all.

[vesh fey]

I run a 1.2Ghz duron, and a gig of ram. I notice No bog when serving only. only when I serveplay do i notice any bog and then noone else seemed to notice it.